The fight to block Brexit continues on...

[MagsJ]

The democratic vote to leave the EU is still being touted by the Remainers as those that voted to leave the EU not understanding what they voted for.

If the vote to remain had won, that would have been that, and the EU would have continued fleecing us and dictating how we ran our industries.. to the detriment of our industries and profit margins.. especially to small businesses, who, since the new EU regulations began don't actually start making a profit until after 4 years, so I can assure the Remain voters that the Leave voters absolutely knew what they were voting for.

Now the House of Lords is meddling in the leave process too and trying to block Brexit. Shouldn't a democratic vote be abided by? as I bet it would have been if Remain had won.

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[MagsJ]

The madness continues... let's hope the democratic vote prevails, or why bother vote at all.

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[MagsJ]

And so it has begun:

Bye bye EU

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https://secondreading.uk/elections/brex ... ppens-now/

[Amorphos]

In this world things fall into proportions, there will have been a percentage who understood what it means, and those who did not I.e…

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/e ... 2c563937ff

One of the replies…

Brexit is forcing countries to revise their willingness to accept Muslims. Finally

How long do you think it will be before people [especially racists] start demanding muslims go home, like what many people were saying at the time? And then it will be, who let all the blacks in etc etc.
I have heard many people saying things like ‘you invited us here’ [in reference to Jamaicans], but white brexiteers aren’t the ones saying it.

when the govt needs more immigrants, it will get them from somewhere just like our governments always have done. leaving the eu wont change a thing.

[surreptitious57]

I will wait patiently for twenty years to pass to see the effect of this

[Carleas]

Mags, what are your concrete, testable predictions of what Brexit will mean for the country? Rising GDP? Increased strength of the pound? Lower unemployment? I predict that in 10 years, the consensus will be that Brexit was a net negative for the UK and the EU economies. A few will benefit, but most will be made worse off.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Mags, what are your concrete, testable predictions of what Brexit will mean for the country? Rising GDP? Increased strength of the pound? Lower unemployment? I predict that in 10 years, the consensus will be that Brexit was a net negative for the UK and the EU economies. A few will benefit, but most will be made worse off.

K: I agree......and the few who will benefit will be those rich and powerful who
drove Brexit.... usually schemes like these are done of the rich, by the rich,
for the rich...... I suspect income inequality will rise in Britain by quite a bit...

Kropotkin

[Amorphos]

I suspect income inequality will rise in Britain by quite a bit...

I suspect the british govt and the ruling classes, will get cheap labor from elsewhere - as they did before we joined.

[barbarianhorde]

In this world things fall into proportions, there will have been a percentage who understood what it means, and those who did not I.e…

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/e ... 2c563937ff

One of the replies…

Brexit is forcing countries to revise their willingness to accept Muslims. Finally

How long do you think it will be before people [especially racists] start demanding muslims go home, like what many people were saying at the time? And then it will be, who let all the blacks in etc etc.
I have heard many people saying things like ‘you invited us here’ [in reference to Jamaicans], but white brexiteers aren’t the ones saying it.

when the govt needs more immigrants, it will get them from somewhere just like our governments always have done. leaving the eu wont change a thing.

Congrats all you Brits!

Alls you now hat ta to is.... pray!!!


Hahahaaa lol


Locked iside an island with Sharia and a government that doesnt allow you to say "theres sharia here"...

ha.


Clutzing empires are fun.

[Harbal]

I predict that in 10 years, the consensus will be that Brexit was a net negative for the UK and the EU economies.

I predict that in 10 years, the UK will not be the only ones to have left the EU.

[Amorphos]

Like it makes a difference. The same people who much of the trade and have done so since the days of empire, will still be ripping the world off. The eu will make deals with us, many behind our backs [note the change of tone recently?]. Did anyone notice that when we [the British] sent a trade delegation to India a few years ago, one thing quietly mentioned was that there would also need to be a deal on immigration - the numbers count from India to the uk!

So well done brexiteers, instead of having Polish immigrants, you will hence forth be getting them from elsewhere, Islamic countries included.
Speaking of which, today on the news was the visit of Teresa May to Saudi Arabia, meanwhile a complaint about Saudi’s and the problems in Yemen.

If you guys think there was anything clever and strong about brexit, I maintain that in truth it wont be either of those things.

[Harbal]

So well done brexiteers, instead of having Polish immigrants, you will hence forth be getting them from elsewhere, Islamic countries included.

That will hardly be a novel experience for us.
In or out, we're screwed either way.

[MagsJ]

Mags, what are your concrete, testable predictions of what Brexit will mean for the country? Rising GDP? Increased strength of the pound? Lower unemployment? I predict that in 10 years, the consensus will be that Brexit was a net negative for the UK and the EU economies. A few will benefit, but most will be made worse off.

Those who voted for Brexit are happy to suffer some casualties, for the release of the tyrannical grip of the EU.

The only country that was profiting was Germany (and someone recently mentioned France was too, and so France).

UK Startups were only making a profit after 4 years, due to all the bureaucratic red-tape that Brussels was drowning them under with the most rediculous trading regulations they could conjure up.

Trading has not stopped.. along with the scaremongering that it would, so we are at this stage in the process:

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[Carleas]

4 years doesn't seem like a particularly long time, especially since new businesses the world over fold at a fairly high rate. So you would predict this number will go down? To what?

For your points on France and Germany, both appear to be net payers into the EU budget (see 2014 numbers here, from Danish Parliament). What is your source that Germany and France are "the only countr[ies] profiting"?

[phyllo]

Trading has not stopped.. along with the scaremongering that it would

You haven't left yet. You only triggered the exit process one week ago.

[Meno_]

Implications are not well understood because the web of interests are never fully disclosed.
There is no doubt that this is a game where only holders of high cards are allowed to play.
For instance, tangentially, the totally regressive

childish game played between Szoros and Trump are basically a throwback about who has more, and not about party affiliation. Could it be that the House of

Lords sees a double entendre here, for the same reason(s) that engender so much hoopla in the US between isolationism and openness? To simplify what
goes on in terms of simple popular belief, misses this.


If that a billionaire populist is not a contradiction in
terms, as cause appearent , is without question a
case at hand where, simplicity rules, yet without a

grasp on the total picture.



Same goes for Brexit. The argument does not start with basic foundations such as union versus isolationism in a fast evolving changing world,
instead goes to the periphery and instilled the most
obvious signature of social consciousness, that of class.


The populist will think of effecting their manifest social position as being the effectors by popular demand, whereas the opposite may be true, their
situation may worsen as a consequence of a general
isolationist policy.

If history can be any guide, the Wilsonian era may
have set the stage for a continuation of a hundred
year of conflict. Protectionism implies more cost in terms of tariffs, security arrangements, and treaties between similarly interested groups.


One may ask the question, of an economic seer as to the future economic effect of either scenarios, and it
all leads down the road to basic ideological
differences, which is at the moment a constant preoccupation.


The other day, on some station or another, the word ideology was hush hushed, as though in an effort to silence any reference to unmask the identity of those,
who may secretly try to hide their appear entirely
confusion, nay regret this way or that.

They just don't want to go there, it's too deep and
makes little sense to those populists to whom simple
answers are the only ones which are worth thinking about. They are questions without answeres. Cross referencing leads to a pathologically redundant effort
to stay with the ever deepening entropic trend.


Even in Hungary, Szoros -land, a university he heavily bequeathed, defunded him on account of the new trend in political point of view.

How ineffective and confusing are the resultant populist narratives when the words are dissected and tested for validity. I think perhaps, the House of Lords, is acting carefully, not to move too fast, in a process, which has already changed many things in Brit life, which may prove countereffective when looked at backwards.

The world is getting smaller, and as it does, unification, rather then its opposite seems to make more sense, generally. The idea that isolationism will favor the general social worldwide sensibility, is largely a questionable proposition, especially illustrative of the way the question was posed to Magsj, if she thinks the economy will improve as a result of withdrawal.

The variables are too many, the Pound is an overly highly retained value, and is bound to fall if ever there is a crisis with the dollar.

I predict a drastic lengthening of the exit process, at the very least, with caveats to augment or even reverse.

[MagsJ]

Replies will follow.. tomorrow maybe.

[Kathrina]

Mags, what are your concrete, testable predictions of what Brexit will mean for the country? Rising GDP? Increased strength of the pound? Lower unemployment? I predict that in 10 years, the consensus will be that Brexit was a net negative for the UK and the EU economies. A few will benefit, but most will be made worse off.

Those who voted for Brexit are happy to suffer some casualties, for the release of the tyrannical grip of the EU.

The only country that was profiting was Germany (and someone recently mentioned France was too, and so France).

UK Startups were only making a profit after 4 years, due to all the bureaucratic red-tape that Brussels was drowning them under with the most rediculous trading regulations they could conjure up.

Trading has not stopped.. along with the scaremongering that it would, so we are at this stage in the process:

The attachment image.jpeg is no longer available

4 years doesn't seem like a particularly long time, especially since new businesses the world over fold at a fairly high rate. So you would predict this number will go down? To what?

For your points on France and Germany, both appear to be net payers into the EU budget (see 2014 numbers here, from Danish Parliament). What is your source that Germany and France are "the only countr[ies] profiting"?

Here are the EU losers (on the left) and the EU gainers (on the right):

untab

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This relations and the fact of blackmailing are the reasons why the EU and the Euro still exist.

The EU net payers as the EU losers should leave the EU. There should be an EU net payers exit.

[Carleas]

The EU net payers as the EU losers should leave the EU. There should be an EU net payers exit.

Why? If the existence of the EU creates positive externalities for its member, it's likely that at least some of the net payers are getting their money's worth. Given that Germany seems to be the EU's most enthusiastic supporter, despite being it's largest net payer, it also seems likely that they see themselves as benefiting from indirect benefits, despite being a direct net payer.

[Meno_]

I agree, it will amount to a mixed bag, but depending on the British Parliament to set the tone and the measure of time.

Substantially,they will wait for signs of geopolitical change initiated by Trump. for a settling of Brexit.

[Michael Jackson]

The democratic vote to leave the EU is still being touted by the Remainers as those that voted to leave the EU not understanding what they voted for.

26% of the population (or 37% of the electorate) isn't a majority.

Brexiteers don't understand what they voted for, because leaving the EU is complex and since no one else has done it before then no one really knows what it will look like or entail. It's not like we were given five different versions of Brexit and all voted for the same version.

If the vote to remain had won, that would have been that, and the EU would have continued fleecing us and dictating how we ran our industries..

No, Farage made clear that if the vote had been marginal the other way round then he would have pressed for another referendum. This is classic Brexiteer self-victimisation.

to the detriment of our industries and profit margins.. especially to small businesses, who, since the new EU regulations began don't actually start making a profit until after 4 years,

Curiously, I know several people who are running profitable small businesses within 4 years of starting them up. So you're simply wrong about this.

Curiously, all of them are concerned that without free access to the single market both their suppliers and their customers will be affected and hence their businesses are likely to make less money post-Brexit than they are now. So you're simply wrong about this too.

so I can assure the Remain voters that the Leave voters absolutely knew what they were voting for.

Describe Brexit in detail.

Now the House of Lords is meddling in the leave process too and trying to block Brexit.

No, they said it should go to a vote in the House of Commons, which it did, and who voted for it. You said you wanted to take the power back - what do you think that looks like? Running a poll in the Sun newspaper and then the government just does whatever the poll says?

Shouldn't a democratic vote be abided by?

It wasn't a democratic vote.

as I bet it would have been if Remain had won.

More Brexiteer self-victimisation...

Basically, you believe a load of crap in tabloid newspapers and than by supporting Brexit you're somehow going against the establishment and hence must be some kind of victim and rebel. It's nonsense. The Tory party (the establishment) wanted this and are going ahead with it.

[Carleas]

The whole 'democracy' narrative on Brexit is under theorized.

First, we know that less than half the population voted for it, so to insist that it is what the people want is at best dubious: it's what some minority of people want, and a sufficient portion of the population was either indifferent or uncertain, so that that minority constituted a plurality of voters.

Second, a single referendum doesn't even tell us very much about what those who voted want. We know that at least some people would vote differently today than they did at the time. If it's the case that another referendum would have a different result, isn't it more democratic to do what people want now instead of what people wanted last year?

Third, as Michael Jackson notes, Brexit is super complicated, it isn't at all clear that this is the kind of thing we should be putting to popular wishes. People who spend their lives trying to figure out what something like Brexit would do are uncertain what the effects should be; of what value, then, is the opinion of a group of voters who have almost no understanding of the whole picture of what it means? If someone is just wrong about what will happen as a result of Brexit, then it is actually false when they say, "I want Brexit".

[Meno_]

As I see it ,the European Union has to approve secession as well for it is a multilateral agreement, right?

[James S Saint]

Globalization shall certainly fail. The reason is that there is no deep-hearted longing for it nor traumatic threat of it not existing. One, if not both, is absolutely required for its survival.

The EU is in a similar situation. It is conspicuously contrived, grasping the coat tails of Globalization and attempting extortion to ensure its fantasy, using technological surveillance as its security.

Britain is another story .. not all together altruistic, but certainly founded in deep-hearted resolve. True Britain's will persevere beyond the contrivances of modern technologically surveilled Man. Regardless of any voting, commandments, rebellions, or justifications, in the long run, the British shall not bow to the EU. Unlike the USA, the EU has no soul - a Frankenstein of its time and just another failed attempt of Man to supplant God (aka. the fundamental Principle by which all things exist and are maintained).

"We, the living with heart and soul, care too little for you, thus..."

[MagsJ]

Have you heard of GOTV?

The democratic vote to leave the EU is still being touted by the Remainers as those that voted to leave the EU not understanding what they voted for.

26% of the population (or 37% of the electorate) isn't a majority.

Brexiteers don't understand what they voted for, because leaving the EU is complex and since no one else has done it before then no one really knows what it will look like or entail. It's not like we were given five different versions of Brexit and all voted for the same version.

If the vote to remain had won, that would have been that, and the EU would have continued fleecing us and dictating how we ran our industries..

No, Farage made clear that if the vote had been marginal the other way round then he would have pressed for another referendum. This is classic Brexiteer self-victimisation.

to the detriment of our industries and profit margins.. especially to small businesses, who, since the new EU regulations began don't actually start making a profit until after 4 years,

Curiously, I know several people who are running profitable small businesses within 4 years of starting them up. So you're simply wrong about this.

Curiously, all of them are concerned that without free access to the single market both their suppliers and their customers will be affected and hence their businesses are likely to make less money post-Brexit than they are now. So you're simply wrong about this too.

so I can assure the Remain voters that the Leave voters absolutely knew what they were voting for.

Describe Brexit in detail.

Now the House of Lords is meddling in the leave process too and trying to block Brexit.

No, they said it should go to a vote in the House of Commons, which it did, and who voted for it. You said you wanted to take the power back - what do you think that looks like? Running a poll in the Sun newspaper and then the government just does whatever the poll says?

Shouldn't a democratic vote be abided by?

It wasn't a democratic vote.

as I bet it would have been if Remain had won.

More Brexiteer self-victimisation...

Basically, you believe a load of crap in tabloid newspapers and than by supporting Brexit you're somehow going against the establishment and hence must be some kind of victim and rebel. It's nonsense. The Tory party (the establishment) wanted this and are going ahead with it.