Why is Consciousness

“What do you think of my robot thread?”

A robot is to execute someones program - so do some people - but latter is nothing to boast with in a philosophical forum…

90% of you act like robots…it’s nothing to boast about.

Speech without fear is overrated…how many of you would spew the shit you’d spew if I actually lived in close proximity to you and there were no laws and rules giving me a conscience? I mean, everyone here pretty much posts drivel day in and day and out, and spits in the face of one the few people who tries to liven up this mental desert. I mean, how many of you act like automatons day in and day out? And who’s lives will, eventually culiminate into a grand nothing but a gravestone with a pithy remark inscribed on it laying in the dirt? And who spits on the one who tries to change things and actually have an impact on anything beyond your own pitiful so-called minds?

Cardboard cut-out…wer-wer bebop do the robot:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU6vlbW4Ft4[/youtube]

I am not even sure that the science we have today could be considered “real science” despite some impressive results here and there. I think science has lost its own consciousness and is more like a swarm. I love how the latest science so easily convinces itself of what consciousness is when it appears that what science has is merely a theory - still! Or did I miss the memo that the theory of evolution has become a law. If I were to choose a theory it would be “string theory” or “m theory”. But ineffective rhetoric aside - I myself sensed material captivation as a correlation to this lovely new science. Look at the world now - what is science really doing for it? I see that eliminating the concept of consciousness has had no actual benefit to any of us. More rhetoric and ineffective still and I apologize for that - but I felt the need to say something. Science seems promiscuous to me now and adulterous. That is all I have to say on the matter - I have no intention on debating my own rhetoric here.

:smiley:

Smile is all I can really do - because “sleep” is not an option . . . open to interpretation . . .

being a “slow learner” is not a bad thing!

“slowness” tends to facilitate penetration … as in penetrating consciousness.

as the saying goes … if the shoe fits … and me thinks the “shoe” is like panty hose … “one size fits all”

Like it or not folks Trixie is a genius! The complexity of her posts are often 4-5 layers higher … as in more complex … than the simplicity of the words and phrases she uses to deliver it. I don’t know whether it is always his/her intention … or by accident. Doesn’t matter the “goodness” is there and the fountain is Trixie’s genius.

Let me try to illustrate with his/her recent use of the word “robot” and the (un)known association(s) to humans he/she implied in his/her post.

Let me start with an anecdote involving my eldest daughter … currently about age 43. She is not a philosopher by trade yet she is not an uneducated woman. She wears the moniker/badge PhD … with some pride I might add. For me … those who wear this moniker/badge have serious constipation in their individual consciousness.

On with my story … a few years ago my daughter shared her philosophy of life … paraphrasing … like the tiger and the rabbit I get up in the morning and start running … looking for food.

See the ‘robotic’ behavior here? … we are taking directions/instructions from our stomach.

For tigers and rabbits … that’s what they do … no more and no less. How many photos have you seen of tigers lazing around in the sun or in the shade.

OTH … for people the word “food” has a much broader meaning … education … career … stature/status in the community and so on.

See the ‘robotic’ behavior here? … we take directions/instructions from our family/culture/ambition and so on.

In many many ways … perhaps almost all ways … people are robots.

Trixie … you’re a genius!!

Has anyone achieved individuation? … anywhere? … anytime?

Sure … they’re called:

  1. freaks

  2. degenerates

  3. insert here

  4. insert here

In the last few decades the entire world has more or less embraced the notion of Market Economy … humanity has virtually no wiggle room … all humanity is reduced to robotic behaviour.

The destructive strain(s) of such an economic model have been evident almost since it’s inception … first at a local level … growing to a regional level and finally (currently) a global level.

The strain(s) will eventually result in a total collapse … in ancient Chinese Philosophy … known as “Reversion of Extremes”.

In nature, this can be seen in a rose blossom … just when the rose blossom finally reaches it’s zenith … the flower is open, beautiful and fragrant … very quickly the next phase sets in … the ugliness of death.

The death of the individual rose blossom is not the death of the rose plant … likewise for humanity … when the current economic model dies a new one … better or worse … will replace it.

Civilisations change - and so do their sociopolitical- national- religious- economical setups* - but Homo remains the same.
Nothing wrong with it - we are what we are - but in times of trouble, or even danger of extinction, it is recommendable that we wake up from our self-complacent dreams.

  • Yval Noah Harari calls them Myths - see his new (highly recommendable!) work: " Sapiens, A Brief History Of Humankind"

Everyone is subject to circumstances - and vice versa. Later aspect entails responsibility.
Since collectives have low and slow response-abilities - the individual (Lat: Undivided) might be the best guide through troubled waters (times)

P.S. I am sure Buddha, Socrates and Copernicus were called nuts and freaks too.

empirical evidence (Confucius, Lao Tzu, Abraham) suggests the truly individuated individual (Lat:undivided) has been born into the human family at the appropriate time … always.

I am certain they would have been as I know I have been.

:smiley:

I love your avatar - Salvador Dali if I am not mistaken.

Dali named it

“Geopoliticus son watching the birth of the new man”

empirical evidence (Confucius, Lao Tzu, Abraham) suggests the truly individuated individual (Lat:undivided) has been born into the human family at the appropriate time … always.
[/quote]
…their regular appearance suggests that consciousness has particular dynamics

“Another view of Consciousness” presents some respective ideas.

Most people do not like to admit I am a genius because it means that I am right 90% of the time…me being right 90% of the time challenges their delusions of how they view their lives and the world.

Sometimes to be a genius is all that is needed is to simply…pay attention. Mozart simply paid attention to music theory and nature, and created music that captured the beauty of nature. Newton simply payed attention to nature, and captured the physics of nature. All I do is simply pay attention to things.
A lot of people are too invested in their own dasein to agree with my theories. What I notice is obvious…that females are not generally inherently sexually attracted to males, which causes sexual stratification and a lot of problems in the world. But if I state the obvious, that females are generally not inherently sexually attracted to males…Noone wants to believe me.

But let’s look at this from a logical perspective.
If females were inherently attracted to most males, males would not need to learn tactics and tricks of how to get women. They would have an adequate quantity of women at the ready to choose from. The amount of rich men would be very few, men seek power as a means to create families.

Thankyou, I am.

Once you start seeing things from my eyes you see the world as a bunch of carboard cutouts, almost stationary in time. Like you are a being 5000 years ahead of your time and not from this world.

pilgrim-seeker_tom

Are some born already as being “truly individuated individuals” at the appropriate time? Is this what you are saying?
I would think that this is actually a process which happens over time, wouldn’t you say?
We are not born with the individual consciousness which we eventually attain to.
I would also say that it takes the meeting and relating with a great many others in order to form a human being in this way. We are not islands unto ourselves.

I may be wrong here but your statement suggests to me that you believe in fate ~~ that we all have our own human destiny. Is this your belief?

Some individuals appear in the appropriate time while some take time to become a individual.

As the word indicates, an individual does not come about through “others”. (except fashion “individuals”)

Buddhists claim that there is an individual consciousness which can experience various births.

encode_decode

I kind of think that most scientists and philosophers of mind would look on consciousness as still a theory or a hypothesis ~~ not the actual concept itself so much ~~ as what it really is.
Don’t you think that science is still debating/investigating/discovering what it is?

It’s as deep as the ocean with many many kinds of “fish” within it and as vast as deep space.
Let’s not forget that the “science fiction” of yesterday eventually became the real science of today.

Well, for one thing, hasn’t it brought us to distant, distant stars? Hasn’t it taught us about the human psyche, about what makes us tick, what makes us more or less fully human? Hasn’t it warned us of global warming? Hasn’t it shown us what we are doing to the different species’ habitats and endangering these same species? Hasn’t it admonished over and over about the dangers of smoking ~~ and yes, do we listen? There are different branches of science and they are all trying to fulfill their purpose. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

You do not need to look with rose-colored glasses but you can at least put one lens in which is rose-colored while at the same time seeing the one which has no lens as of yet. The coin has two sides to it, within a 24 hour period is the both the light and the dark, there is both hot and cold, there is both the star which has been born and the star which is slowly dying out.

You may just have a point there in a sense. But you can still hold on to your consciousness and dive into it, seek it when and where you can. It may at times hide from us but do you remember when you were a child and played hide and seek? Were you one who was great at finding those others?
There are the Borg but then let’s not forget that there are also those walking the corridors of the Star Ship Enterprise who daily seek out consciousness wherever in the galaxies they may explore. lol

So please go where no “non-conscious” man dares to go. Have no fear.

You could come up with a multitude of ways in which science has worked and has “been there” so to speak.

Why is sleep not an option?
You could also do this ~~ :-k

Yup :slight_smile:

Over time the individuals born as ‘truly individuated individuals’ come to know and understand their birth conditions.

Your above comment reflects the traditional posture … doesn’t make it true though. We obviously can’t ‘know’ yet sincere discussion of an alternative view may have merit.

  1. Our senses exist … their sole purpose … to support our preference for survival in this world. Of course, as survival became less and less of a challenge our senses took on an expanded role … attempt to grow/expand consciousness. The senses are not designed or equipped for this purpose … causing them to often take us down dead end streets.

  2. A priori information … hard wired in our brain … the subconscious … like software burned into a chip … can’t be altered … though application software can run on top of it … our consciousness runs on top of our a priori information … often creating conflict/interference.

  3. Access to additional information … the kind of information sought by serious practitioners of meditation, contemplation, qi gong etc. All these disciplines tell us the serious practitioner must first learn to suspend all faculties … senses … memory … reason and so on. Why? Seems logical that our senses, memory, reason and so on are obstacles/hurdles.

  4. I have always thought … until today … that higher consciousness was desirable … higher consciousness would somehow resolve the many issues plaguing humanity. What changed? Today, I’m thinking higher consciousness has a relatively low ceiling … that we keep coming up against. Perhaps lower consciousness is the key … we should attempt to regress … escape from our lifetime reservoir of consciousness.

Enough babble on this issue …

Naming conventions cause confusion, conflict and hostility. Fate is one of those words. All individuals are pregnant with enormous potential … fate is an instance where an individual gives birth to some of his/her enormous potential … a single birth from an infinite number of possibilities.

Those who deny fate give birth to an unfulling life … dying … still pregnant with enormous potential.

Ok then. I thought that you were using the word “fate” to mean something which we had no power over, no means to control, that the life which we were given was/is the only one which would come to us. In other words, pre-destination or a unique or peculiar destiny already written in the stars. I don’t see that.

We are nevertheless entitled to our own perspectives.

Really. I deny “fate” as per a personal destiny that was “meant to be” BUT I do not see my life as being “unfulfilled”. Considering what the more or less usual lifespan is, we can honestly say that when we die there is still some or much potential that has not come to fruition ~~ depending on who we are and how we think.

Why? because the world is our oyster and there are many possibilities. Who can possibly fulfill all of them?They come and they go as we live the life we “choose”. If we live lives of consciousness, or try to, hopefully we see them coming and we fulfill them ~~ we “carpe diem”.

But that, for me, has nothing to do with not following our “given” fate. Many sense a raison de etre but this is grounded and comes to be as a result of our life’s journey, which is unique to all of us. That raison de etre may also change with more consciousness and more of a diversified life.

I have also questioned whether or not there could be a personal destiny written in the stars but I don’t grab hold of something and automatically believe it simply because it might make me feel good about myself or because I feel like some helpless leaf blowing in the wind. We create our own destinies, if we choose to be creative. We use the energy which we have within us or which we are to create and transform continually our own lives and that is a beautiful thing.

If, at the end of our lives, we have regrets about not having accomplished this or that, it is because they are far too short – but then again, not everyone feels that way either.

If not, it is because we are nothing but couch potatoes who refuse to be planted somewhere to grow.

That is my perspective. You needn’t concur with it. :mrgreen:

Dear Arcturus
I greatly admire your arguments!

(except: "Rome wasnt build in one day" - as it doesnt exist anymore either…)

We like to believe and to believe in our beliefs - particularly the one, that our beliefs will become a reality, ignoring that latter is a belief too.