Yes, but the objectivists – religious or secular – will generally argue that whatever you do, it can be determined to be either the right thing or the wrong thing to do.
I don’t have that option.
And the sociopaths will argue that, on the contrary, if killing you is in my best interest [for whatever reason] that makes it the right thing to do.
This in my view will always the most disturbing rendition of nihilism. It is why so many people freaked out when Nietzsche came on the scene. It’s all about God. No God, no transcendent font able to finally pin down or differentiate Right from Wrong, Good from Evil.
Do you want to know my real stance on abortion? It’s very complicated. I believe that immortality comes from a lack of foresight. I also believe that good foresight comes from good hindsight. My point is: if there was a crystal ball that could show you both possibilities, with abortion or any other decision, you would take the option that did the most good, would you not? And that’s how I base my morality. People cannot look into a crystal ball and know exactly what is going to happen - but if they sincerely believe that aborting their fetus would outweigh the cost of the life, then yes, the abortion should occur.
My point however revolves less around what someone claims to believe is true and more around that which he can demonstrate that all rational men and women are obligated to believe is true. In other words, to what extent are your views on abortion rooted [as mine are] in dasein?
Girl gets knocked up at 18. She can’t afford to raise the baby and go to college at the same time. She works as a waitress for most of her life as a single mother and lives in a poor neighborhood.
Same girl gets knocked up at 18. She gets an abortion. She goes to college, get’s a bachelor’s degree, and meets her significant other while writing her thesis for her master’s. They both get high paying jobs, live in an upscale neighborhood, and have three children together.
Both options reflect the embodiment of dasein. The way in which our values are rooted in the lives that we live. And if the first rendition of the woman reflects the fact she was forced to give birth because abortion is illegal where she lives, that is not construed as a “good” thing to her. And if the second rendition of her is able to choose the abortion that isn’t construed as “good” for the dead baby.
Now, is there a philosophical argument here that makes these conflicted goods go away?
- Same girl gets knocked up at 18. She takes a year off to live with her parents as she gives childbirth. She sends it to an abortion agency and go through the process for an open adoption. After birth, she goes to college, get’s a bachelor’s degree … and you know the rest.
Yes, there may well be women who have this as an option. But what of those who don’t? There are after all any number of conflicting historical and cultural contexts in which this will be construed as only more or less applicable.
… I went from completely pro-life to almost completely pro-choice in the matter of a few posts…
Yes, and, given a new experience or being introduced to a new point of view, you may well change your mind again.
I, on the other hand, being “stuck” in my dilemma above don’t have that option. Not until someone can convince me that one or the other option is necessarily more rational and more virtuous. That such a distinction can in fact be made.
You tell me: Which part of this is not in sync with the manner in which I construe value judgments as embedded/embodied in dasein?
In my view, you have created this polemic – this “world of words” – in your head in order to fit all of the disparate peices out in the world together. “I” then becomes wholly grounded in the manner in which you have “thought this up”.
You have “faith” that your own particular intellectual assessment intertwining God and abortion is equal to the claim of all others. Why? Because none of you have any hard evidence – proof – that would permit you to argue that all rational/ethical folks are obligated to believe the same.
Again, you are right. I don’t have a magic eight ball that actually works. I can’t tell you if something is objectively right or wrong, because again, it’s all about context. Why do you keep trying to make me look bad? I keep agreeing with your assessments. Look at the shit that PewDiePie had to go through because people took him out of context.
My aim on this thread is to explore the relationship – the existential relationship – between faith in God and behaviors that those who claim to embody this faith choose. As this relates to their moral narrative on this side of the grave and an understanding of their fate on the other side of it.
It’s not about making others look bad; it’s about nudging them to bring the part “in my head” out into the world of actual human interactions. In particular when they come into conflict with others who possess different renditions of God and religion.