Why God is inherently right

The Holy Grail is certainty?

Why do you need this Grail? What purpose would it serve?

Let me start by explaining what I mean by “Holy Grail”

the not’s first

not Dan Brown’s Mary Magdalene

not some cup or chalice from the last supper

not the “Round Table” holy grail

the specifics …

the ‘whole enchilada’

the ‘big kahuna’

Some readers may wonder "How will you know if you find it? For me, analogous to the question … "How do you know when it’s time for a poop? … You just know!

Some readers may wonder “What is there to do after you find it?” Hypothetical in the extreme … yet I will offer some speculation. For me … if the ‘whole enchilada’ is revealed to me it … it seems logical that my task would be to ‘help’ others who are on the same path.

Let me explain my use of the word “help” … I use it in this context …

Lifting the ‘veil’ … removing the ‘veil’ … is the purview of the Author of Creation. Those who attempt to usurp this authority are all charlatans.

To your question Phyllo … I would no longer stumble around in the dark … I would walk in the light.

tom wrote

Help how exactly? If you know what God knows, what would you be exactly?

I would be the same entity I am today … no change … simply a “servant”

Wendy … and other interested readers … let me try to bring the abstract comments in my previous post(s) to the concrete … my personal experiences.

Almost 25 years ago I had an “experience” … for the first few years following this experience I would seek help … from time to time. I went to doctor(s), psychologist(s), psychiatrist(s), priest(s) … and one day I was referred to Jack Milan in Guelph … a wise and learned man … a Spiritual Director who operates outside the RC church. Inside the RC church one must obey the appointed Spiritual Director. The very well known … in the global Catholic community … Ste Teresa of Avila … is renowned for her comment … “don’t send me any more stupid priests.”

Jack informed me in the first few minutes of our first chat that he does not accept cases where he judges the problem to be psychological. He said we would have a few sessions after which time he would decide. One day he said to me … “think what you want but don’t act on your thoughts until you consult with me.” I understood this to suggest Jack was thinking my case was spiritual. What Jack didn’t know … I wasn’t honest with him … his comment dealt a mortal blow to our relationship. I have always been too independent and self reliant to submit myself totally to anyone. I stopped seeing Jack a few weeks later … though I my gratitude for his help stays with me to this day.

I think it was 1996 … my first trip to Israel … worked on a kibbutz. One day I decided to give this Spiritual Director thang another shot. I remembered the name of a Franciscan Brother I had met on the phone some time earlier … I remembered his name Maurice Richard because of my fondness for hockey as a child. I wrote this Franciscan a letter asking him about the role and usefulness of a Spiritual Director. To my great surprise he answered me and I actually received his response while still on the kibbutz … see snail mail is OK :slight_smile:

Father Richard told me in the letter there is only one Spiritual Director … the Holy Spirit … the closest another human could get would be a “cheer leader”. I have always remembered his sound counsel.

Okay, continue. O:)

You have a spiritual body and a physical body right now. If you go “in”(behind the veil) with your spiritual body, you will have to make a choice once there to stay and explore or return to your physical body. If you worry about your physical body, you will fall from Grace, essentially kicking yourself out of Heaven. I’ve made that mistake already. Even now, I’m undecided on what I would do should I embark on a return to the Divine before my physical body dies. One moment I love God, the next I’m spitting nails angry with Him. Do I trust? Biggest question there is for me. My answer is WTF?

I think it can help in figuring out what in your personality and behavior is genetic and what is unique to you. For example, if you have a passion for music, does it run in your family or is it something you might ween yourself off of? If it runs in your family, that’s a good sign it’s got its roots stuck deep into your personality and is more or less there to stay. Otherwise, you might think of it as a passing phase, or if it’s been with you all your life, you might wonder what caused it to be there? Some life experience? The environment you grew up in?

Wendy … in my previous posts I shared some concepts I subscribe to … don’t misunderstand me … being a spiritual cheer leader is a much too serious … too dangerous … too risky … undertaking for a numbscull like me.

Having said that … here’s some more anecdotal support. In the late 90’s I made several trips to Medugorje … Bosnia Hertzgovina. On one of my trips I had a brief encounter with a middle aged man from the Netherlands. He had been in India working with a spiritual Master/Guru and apparently hit a “ceiling” so he came to Medugorje looking for help. One of the priests in Medugorje at the time acted as his cheer leader … told him to back home and sit still and do nothing for a year. The man was ecstatic about this counsel. Go figure eh!

That makes a lot sense Gib.

Kinda suggests that knowing little or nothing about your ancestors makes the “know thyself” task that much more difficult.

Take my case for example … if I knew that lots of my ancestors were really messed up … as in psycho … I would feel much better about my life :smiley:

:laughing: You must be joking. :wink: …unless you hide a side to yourself that’s completely hidden from us (or me).

In some cases, though, you have to wonder if a certain trait is really passed on genetically or just learnt. For example, they say that the cycle of abuse that is often seen in families where one or both parents abuse their children and that abuse repeats for the next generation, is a result of that very abuse–as in, if took the child from birth and handed him/her over to a couple of foster parents who did not abuse the kid, the cycle would be broken. Or would it? It’s hard to tell in these cases whether the abuse is purely learned, purely genetic, or a mix of both. There very well might be a gene that makes one quick to violence, or unable to control their angry outburst, or lacking the skill of solving problems through reason and discussion, etc. My thoughts in my last post make the most sense in regards to ancestors or family members whom you have had little contact with.

No … not at all

I don’t know of any history of mental illness in my extended family … nor are there any priests and the like.

Surely I qualify as “weird” or “misfit” … if not insane.

there is a side(s) of me completely hidden from me … I have always shared what I know about myself.

Pilgrim,

All misfits feel like they’re “insane”–it’s part and parcel of mis-fitting. But there are those who are genuinely psychotic, and there are those more like you and Wendy.

You guys are among the few who make humanity better.

Gib

You would have had a Muslim influence in your formative years?

pilgrim_tom wrote:

Sexual, spiritual, physical? …care to elaborate.

It must have had a great impact on you, for you to pursue counselling.

Maybe indirectly, but I wasn’t raised Muslim. My dad wasn’t a practicing Muslim. He came to Canada to get away from that culture. While he was raised Muslim, his father was a banker who instilled Western values and ideals into him. He encouraged my dad to find a better life in the West. When my dad came to Canada, he left all that behind. And when he raised me, he instilled those same Western values into me.

So while I can’t say a Muslim upbringing had any formative influence on me directly, it certainly must have for my father, and these kinds of influence don’t go away after one generation.

Shieldmaiden … the experience I refer to is the demarcation line between no conscious awareness and conscious awareness … the baby chick breaking through the egg shell. Here are some notes I wrote about this experience many years ago.

Gib … you are much too modest. Your lineage on your father’s side may well go back to the time of the City of UR … imagine how helpful it might be if you had all the data … might explain why your life is unfolding the way it is.

Apparently the records are in the Hindu Akashic and the Noosphere. :slight_smile:

For god so loves the world that in his idleness and absence allows cruelty or malice to manifest…bullshit if you ask me.

Joker, is that you?

What’re you naming yourself now? Mictlan… something… something?

I can imagine many a pain and trapped down a mineshaft forever scenarios without death and ends tho?

gib, does trump need to build a wall along the Canadian border as well then lol [cos of all dem muslims]. only jokin mate. :slight_smile: