"Chelsea" Manning's Sentence Commuted by Obama

What’s your position on gender dysphoria? It seems to be a real thing and a lamentable position. I sure as shit wouldn’t want that nor would I wish that on my worst enemy.

Assuming you agree that it exists, the question is how to treat it. I think we’ll both agree that lots of therapy is a good first step. You want to make sure it is gender dysphoria and not some whim or perversion. Actually, we probably don’t agree on that. You’re consistency is something I admire about you. You probably think that Caitlyn Jenner should be denied the power of her wealth to do what she pleases in the same way you think a dysphoric teen shouldn’t feel the way they do.

For me, Trans* is such a rare issue it does boil down to the asshole test because otherwise, who cares? As President Trump said, “The current system we have works very well.” This is the point where I could lazily post some pictures of gender normative MtF and FtMs but that misses the point. I’ve seen a lot of ugly people in bathrooms. Maybe they were passing poorly, maybe they are just ugly. Who gives a shit?

How does that hurt you or your community? Don’t give me theoreticals.

I’ll admit I was not rigorous. I think highly of you Ucci so I allow myself to be glib. I’m not going to try to save you because you were always kind enough and always had enough respect towards me to not try to save me.

What you are choosing to represent is deeply abhorrent to me. Some of that was always going to be. No way around that. But some other things I think, “maybe?”.

I’m working on a way of grappling with conservatism. You helped me grapple with Christianity so I have great hopes. But right now I’m left with shadowboxing since I can’t see anything to grab on to. I can’t see anything but hate.

I married a fervently Protestant woman (adult baptism and everything since her father, a man I adore, is very much an atheist) and that is something I never would have done without you Ucci. Help me understand your political beliefs the way you helped me understand your god beliefs, since they are both strange and offensive to me.

This will be harder, since the racist south african woman who lives in a white enclave and the exploitative pawn shop owner won’t be foils for “my side”.

We seem to agree Trump is a regular Republican. Why should I love Trump?

Seems like you want to be willfully ignorant, I don’t see how I have to approve. The 2 paragraphs demonstrates the signs and symptoms of whiny-baby-syndrome, Ie. Facebook syndrome. Not too far removed from the grown-30-year-old-girl-who-hits-the-block-button kind of syndrome.

I don’t think you researched any scientific theory of gender, just found the most absurd shit-lib theory of gender you could find on the internet, and claim that anyone who has a scientific gender theory about transexuals is as dumb as a shitlib.

Ok, so here’s a sneak peek of the actual science behind transgenderism. When a human male takes female hormones for four months, it’s brain starts to lose about 1 cup of brain mass, and start to physically morph into a female brain.

Course you never hear that theory, because it goes against the shitlib dogma that sexes are equal.

Also, goths like 18th century clothing, because 18th centuries had fashion and weren’t degenerate moderns with saggy pants.

Words are not play things, for children to use. Third-gendered=hermaphrodite. A hermaphrodite cannot be homosexual, it is inherently bisexual, even if it lusts for only hermaphrodites, because hermaphrodites are bisexual entities (bisexual as in having male and female sex organs.)

I don’t see the logic. If men who get laid have pzombie copies left in your dimension, thats less odds of you getting laid.

Also, I’m still waiting for you to explain how Satyr is a retard. How is he a retard?

To the point of the thread:

Uccisore, are you saying that both the Russia hack and the Manning leaks are acceptable, or that they are both unacceptable? Or do you, like many who you disagree with politically, find a way to distinguish the two?

To the trans issues: This clearly gets beyond the scope of this thread, though the scare quotes invited it, so…

It seems that the conservative worldview is the more common one in human history, given that it is more common in the developing world, a place that is effectively living in the past relative to the developed world. And I don’t mean that as a put down, but rather by explanation. In the historic context, uniformity within a group was extremely important to the survival of the group, because it had implications for group efficiency and coherence. In a threatening world full of rival groups, it’s extremely important for the group that it not fight itself.

That homogeneity was and is policed by shaming. Transexuals, like goths and many other subcultures, are groups forming in opposition to the mainstream, a significant threat to group coherence. Being mean to transexuals is a way of encouraging everyone to move back towards the middle. It communicates that deviation from the norm has a social cost in the form of exclusion. That, I think, explains a lot of the ‘hate’ that comes from people who align as more urban, working class, nationalist, etc.: those are all positions that made a lot of sense when you couldn’t communicate directly with anyone anywhere, and buy almost anything from anywhere in the world, and form group allegiances without regard for geography or nationality or traditional ties. The hate is instrumental.

But to preempt what I think Uccisore will say: it’s true that transexuality is no longer just people being different. It’s become a signaling mechanism for both sides, a way of showing group membership by indicating strong affiliation with a positions that really doesn’t have much practical relevance. And I think the left is actually borrowing a page from the conservative playbook, by using transexuality as a shibboleth to show membership, policing social norms and being intolerant of deviation. That I think makes sense if the left thinks of itself as a minority movement, because a minority should prize group cohesion. It’s just a little awkward to choose the tolerance for a certain difference as the thing around which you won’t tolerate differences in order to enforce in-group sameness.

Xunzian, I’d recommend the early part of Uccisore’s Generation, Tradition… thread for insight into his worldview, I feel like I got some good insight from it before the german-fetishy members made it about race. I also recently read Scott Alexander’s intro to reactionary philosophy, and I don’t know if Uccisore considers himself a reactionary, but I see a lot of similarities between it an his thought, and it definitely fleshes out some things I see more and more in mainstream conservative thought (note that Alexander isn’t a reactionary, he wrote that in preparation for an anti-reactionary FAQ, also worth a read).

And a belated welcome back, by the way.

Ucci and I have history, so forgive us our slang. Back in the mid-to-late '00s when Ucci and I were regularly effortposting at each other, the “third gender” was effeminate Oscar Wilde-style homosexuals.

Ucci didn’t like them because they didn’t fall within his perception of an acceptable purview. I still struggle with them because it is a party I’ve never been invited to. We each struggle with our own different reasons but because we are also old friends our glibness can be seen as offensive.

Life comes at you fast and while the trans population is still targeted, they’ve gone from a target nobody knew (and this didn’t care about) to an issue worth discussing.

I’m a critic of capitalism but it does accelerate things:

I don’t like xkcd but that image gives me a perverted sense of hope.

Hope demands that things are not good. Hope can even be the worst poison.

But I’m a romantic. I like hope.

Edit: I am also a firm advocate for the gender binary. I’m OK with elasticity around poles but not multipolarity. If we can “decolonize” gender then maybe. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

Since when did Majority Opinion account for philosophy? Philosophy is based on logic and reason, it should be a community circle of thinkers making the best decisions. Politics a joke, to rule sheeple too cuckified to do anything about it. Who cares what the sheeple think?

The goal is to ban all abrahamic religions. How are we gonna do that if we put it to a popular vote? They are all brainwashed into religious disease at early ages, 80% of the population are religious idiots. We need an aristocratic Noble like me to ban it, not put it to a vote of the sheeple.

Riiiiight. Everyone is a leftist except for Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and Paul Ryan, and Alex Jones…right?

I’d just like to poke my head in here and say that Smears is probably twice the thinker I’ll ever be. I like my niche zone and I think I’m pretty good at it. I can parrot past masters and make their words fit almost anything. But what I’ve really done is navigate a path. I’ve followed the thinkers I’ve liked and bounced up against and found a way around the thinkers I haven’t. Sometimes growth came from a thinker I liked reaching a conclusion I didn’t. Do I submit myself to their will or do I go another way?

There is lots of discussion that could happen there.

Smears is the only dude to routinely use logical notation. Even if he was just trying to make a point of nihilism (often) he used the most up to date rationalist means to do so. Using rationalism to deconstruct itself is not my bag but I appreciate that dude can (or at least could? It’s been many years) do it .

My niche zone is Eastern Religions. Smears’ niche zones are logic and philosophy.

Thanks buddy. That’s what I went to college for.

Has anyone seen Uccisore? I wanted to ask him about his take on some current affairs in our great nation’s capitol.

K: since 45 has self destructed, Ucci has been MIA… I guess he doesn’t want to face any shit
about 45…I for one certainly wouldn’t give Ucci shit for 45 being such a shitty president :-"

Kropotkin

I’m starting to worry about him. I know he had gone through a series of meltdowns here. Running around lashing out at people and basically getting blue in the face with having to cope with some of his views not lining up with the world in front of him.

Like I disagree that the travel ban didn’t have anything to do with Muslims, and I disagree that its appropriate to publicly shame minorities, poor people, and those who have preferences that differ from mine. But I don’t want him to be going through what he must be going through having to watch his ideals crumble in practice every day on the news.

He might be embarrassed, maybe enough people got through to him and he’s now coping with his bigotry and realizing that not everyone in the world is a radical leftist, and that there is such a thing as a center.

I hope he’s ok. He’s a very smart guy, too smart to not be a little ashamed right now of how he’s been behaving. Hopefully he can come back and apologize to all the good people he’s insulted here, and to the ones who’s reports he’s routinely deleted as a result of his political bias. And maybe he could be willing to have civil conversations with people and we could learn a little more about how he came go hold the radical, bigoted selfish, petty childish views that he’s let define him for so long. I used to think that the term “moderator” would require a person who is moderate to faithfully execute the position. Ucc, showed me that that was false.

Ucc, I don’t agree with you about much, but I hope you’re reading this and taking it well. The rest of us aren’t as mean and hateful as you, so you can come back and were not going to attack you the way you would attack us.

Or maybe it’s spring break and he’s taking a vacation…

I don’t know that to be true, I just think it’s pretty unlikely that his absence has anything to do with the goings on at ILP. It’s easy to overestimate our causal role in other people’s motives. For example: I don’t think Uccisore ever deletes reports on this forum; I delete them after a week or two.

Who knows man. I know that he generally thinks I’m a libtard or whatever, and I know he’s been facing a lot of disagreement from a broad variety of posters who disagree with which many would consider inappropriate expressions of his views, and that his absence conspicuously coincides with a lot of real world happenings that seem to demonstrate that some of what he agrees with isn’t a popular as he may believe. But we’re supposed to exchange ideas and points of view here, and so I felt co concerned that he may feel as though he may not be welcomed in the current political climate. With what’s going on in the news, it just made me wonder. I have a tendency to get the most entertainment/enlightenment/intellectual engagement out of posters who disagree with me on principle. So I wanted him to be here to discuss some of this stuff. Hope he is just on vacation. I’d hate to think that he felt uncomfortable discussing this stuff with guys who’ve known him here for years.

But logically it’s just another case, albeit in reverse, of Trump’ s tactic of defensive offense. It’s really only a laymen’ s dealing with the fallout from a no contest admission. I think I am right but in case I am not, heck…

The post modern version of minimal admission hence responsibility.

His absence , may mean so many things that your guess is as good as mine.

WRONG. In the nearly three months since you posted this there is no sign whatsoever of Assange being extradited to the US.

He won’t be - the alt right is facing a huge identity crisis (how ironic, given their entire subculture is based in identity politics). As the most prominent of all the self-victimising clowns who make up our political spectrum, Trump winning was a huge problem for them. You can’t honestly claim that white male conservatives are somehow being destroyed by Leftists when the Democrat party ditched their Left wing candidate in favour of a genocidal but politically correct centrist, who then lost to a orange supremacist retard.

Furthermore, it didn’t take Trump long to reveal that he isn’t anti-establishment. I mean, who would have thunk it? Him being a North Eastern billionaire and all. Meanwhile, Milo is a busted flush who covers up and makes excuses for paedophiles, which even the most warped alt rightist cannot claim is OK, having spent years claiming that it is the Left who promote and excuse paedophilia. Now you’ve got a guy in the White House who openly talks about how he fancies his own daughter, and the gay Greek immigrant troll who was being heralded for sticking it to the liberals admits to being a sociopath who covers up for child abusing cunts.

That is to say, the alt right made claims to morality which are now utterly falling apart. I’ve noticed how in the last few weeks they’ve gone virtually silent, so I doubt that Ucci is any different. Of course, when and if he returns he’ll deny it, because the last thing any alt rightist does is admit to having feelings or being hypersensitive, even when they’re losing their shit at some neolibtard twatting on about where trannies go for a shit.