Is evolution true?

There is no chef.
What caused the cake and the pie? The chef or the oven? If merely the oven, shouldn’t we see cake-pies or pie-cakes in development? Which led to which? How did one ever evolve into the other?

Can a conversation get more ridiculously ignorant?

Evolution is not “Science”. Evolution is a principle theorized as A cause of life in all of its forms. Evolution is worshiped by atheists as the First Cause of life, their “God”.

But what is the cause of evolution?

Than what you said about baking? I seriously doubt it.

:laughing:

JSS wrote:

I would like, very much, to hear you answer your own question James.

“What is the cause of evolution James?”

That’s easy…
The thing that they called “God”.

… which is why this discussion has been so ridiculous.

[quote=“James S Saint”]
There is no chef.
What caused the cake and the pie? The chef or the oven? If merely the oven, shouldn’t we see cake-pies or pie-cakes in development? Which led to which? How did one ever evolve into the other?

Can a conversation get more ridiculously ignorant?

Evolution is not “Science”. Evolution is a principle theorized as A cause of life in all of its forms. Evolution is worshiped by atheists as the First Cause of life, their “God”.

K: wrong as usual… I don’t in any way shape or form “worship” evolution…
that is what you do… I think evolution answers the question how we got
here better then any other way…it is not the “cause of life”… and
evolution doesn’t even say how life got started… that part is unknown and most
likely will stay unknown…evolution is simply a means to resolve the question
of, how did we get here… in fact, given the choices offered, evolution is by far
the most logical way we got here… using Ockham’s razor, evolution makes
the best sense of all the theories of how we got here…

Kropotkin

You wouldn’t know it one way or another. You simply love to hate those other guys.

There you go. End of argument.

To you, what doesn’t fall into that category?

“Wrong as usual”. That is not what Occam’s Razor is about. And even if it was, the "God did it" ontology is far, far, far simpler than the "for unknown reasons, it kept changing microscopically until it just became what it is in all of its variety and nuances".

we have evidence for evolution and no, zero evidence for
god… you don’t have any evidence for god, so how can you
bring in god into a conversation about science? You can’t…
as far as being the simplest explanation for evolution…
it isn’t the simplest… to accept god as an explanation is to
accept all kinds of stuff like heaven and hell and angels
and sin and guilt, the bible, the list goes on and on of things
that must follow if you accept god… I don’t accept the idea of god,
so I don’t have to worry about all that crap that goes with the belief
in god…it is not simple to believe in god… very complicated stuff
and confusing stuff… like the trinity, to give one example…

Kropotkin

Exactly wrong. You have speculation of Evolution and zero evidence for the lack of God.

The truth is that you don’t know one from the other because you haven’t the sense to define either in any meaningful way. And when pressed, you merely invent a strawman to satisfy your habit of hate.

I mean, we can prove evolution in a few days with bacteria. Then it becomes “micro vs maco” evolution. Then we show macro using dogs and other bred pets. Then it’s some other objection . . . at which point it’s more a matter of not really getting it.

Not until you define it as a falsifiable concept.

HA! Good one.

Actually bacteria can be used to demonstrate evolution because they can exchange genetic information with each other…

hammiverse.com/lectures/18/3.html

In order for a new species of bacteria to arrive, it has to not be able to exchange genetic information at all with another species.

So, humunculus, you were wrong to state that we can’t prove evolution through bacteria. It would be international news if we ever saw it!!!

So, this is the crux.
Compare a positive to a negative.
If one tiny doubt can be manufactured in the case for a science, all of that science falls.
If no incontrovertible proof is found against the claim for a deity, all of religion stands.

Try this instead:
On on side,
pile all of the evidence that supports evolution.
Next to it, pile all of the proofs that any specific observation in evolutionary biology is untrue or incorrect.

Then, on the on the other side,
pile all the evidence that supports the factuality of Abrahamic religions.
Next to that, pile all the specific proofs that negate individual claims within those religions.

Before wading in to evaluate the quality of each datum, it might be useful to compare the individual piles for size and weight.
You know, just to be fair.

Where did you get this obsession? What made you think it defines or limits the concept of evolution?

I didn’t say that. Evolution is demonstrated in bacterial cultures, routinely, every day. It’s not international news (!!!)
What they won’t demonstrate is your idee fixe about speciation.
I said you can’t get them to mate.
Ingesting fragments of chromosome from other bacterial strains in the same culture medium can also be construed as modifying the species, and thus evolving.
What they will not do, for you or anyone else, is reproduce sexually to recombine their DNA.

You’re being dense.

Evolution (not growth, not adaptation) is SOLELY defined by speciation. “Origin of SPECIES”. Remember???

A bear cannot fuck a lion and produce offspring!!!

That means they are a different SPECIES!!

In order for bacteria to speciate, new bacterium have to only be able to exchange DNA with each other, and no other bacterium on earth.

Like I said, talking to you and Peter is literally like talking to a 5 year old who’s never studied evolution!

E: Evolution (not growth, not adaptation) is SOLELY defined by speciation. “Origin of SPECIES”. Remember???
A bear cannot fuck a lion and produce offspring!!!
That means they are a different SPECIES!!

K: evolution is partly speciation, partly other stuff… that is what you don’t get…
speciation is part of evolution but not the whole thing… Natural selection has
a role and genetics plays a role… randomness has a role… that is what people
don’t get about evolution… its random nature… and you can show me where
exactly in “origin of species” does it say speciation is the ONLY aspect of evolution…
I have read the “Origin of Species” and I don’t recall it saying exactly that… so
point out the exact chapter in the book where it says “speciation is the only aspect of
evolution” and I will recant every word I said…

Kropotkin

Peter, the book itself is called “origin of species”

It’s not called, “the reason children don’t look exactly the same as their parents, parents they could reproduce with”

If you really think, like humunculus, that any change through generations is “origin of species”, you are defining species as adaptation …

Does it ever occur to you that Darwin himself jumped to conclusions ?

K: yes, the “Origins of Species” is how do we get different species? by such things
as speciation and natural selection and genetics, (although in his time, Darwin
had no idea about genetics and the introduction of genetics greatly helped
Darwin’s theory by putting into place the mechanism of how in mating we
differ from our parents… which is why we have children who don’t look
exactly like their parents…that is part of evolution) now note Darwin didn’t
address the actual ORIGINS of the species, be it god or some other mechanism…
but he did address the reason why we have man and lions and tigers and bears, oh my…
Darwin didn’t jump to any conclusions, in fact if you read about how the book of
the “origins of species” came about, you will see that he worked on the theory itself
for over 20 years until pushed into publishing his book by Wallace
who was going to publish his book which said pretty much
what Darwin was going to say…his voyage to the Galapagos islands
was around 1830 and he didn’t publish his book until 1859…

you are fixated on only one aspect of evolution and missing the whole
other side of why evolution is so successful in understanding how
we have the species we have… natural selection and genetics
and speciation are all part of evolution… learn ALL the aspects of
evolution and you will find all your answers…

Kropotkin