"i am god" stuff

First, let me acknowledge that I have received much more from ILP members than I have given … yourself included.

For example … I now know what to do when a person threatens to come after me with a pitch fork. Run like hell! :smiley:

My purpose? I don’t know and at my age it doesn’t much matter … if I’m not going in the right direction I’ll soon be out
of time … too late to change horses now. :slight_smile:

OTH … that might explain my recent affection for the ancient Chinese sage Zhuang Zi … he said … paraphrasing … “I don’t know … with any degree of certainty … that I don’t know.” … a subtle profundity?

I’ll share the image(message) that came to me after reading the above paragraph … share … no claim that the image is correct.

An image of a toddler … at the crawling stage of life. The toddler knows … through observation and intuition … that life is more interesting for those who can walk. With courage and determination one day the toddler manages to stand erect … without support … the toddler wabbles a bit and falls down. With a refill of courage and determination one day the toddler manages two consecutive steps … wabbles and falls down again. Eventually the toddler learns to manage the art of walking.

When you get to this stage in your spiritual journey … manage the art of walking … be careful not to develop a swagger! :smiley:

Cont’d

Thoughts on “align with the Divine”

Greek Orthodoxy labels it theosis … keep in mind the initiators of this theory are careful to add … the human person does not merge with some sort of impersonal divine force, losing individual identity or consciousness.

Let me share a personal experience that helped me to understand this notion of “align with the Divine” … from a Buddhist perspective … I think.

About 20 years ago a gentleman who i was told had considerable experience with spiritual matters asked me a question:
What did the Guru do after achieving Nirvana?

Since at the time I was a neophyte on spiritual matters … I had no inkling of his motivation for posing the question nor any idea how to respond.
After what seemed to be a long pregnant pause … silence during a conversation always seems longer … he said … “He chops wood”
Internally, I accepted his answer at face value and decided after becoming a mystic I would find a large wood pile and start chopping wood. :slight_smile:

After long reflection it seems to me there are 3 stages to "alignment with the Divine:

  1. A long and difficult ascent to the Divine. Countless people start this ascent … very very few people reach the summit. For me completion is by invitation only.
  2. A very brief communion with the Divine … very very brief.
  3. A rapid descent back to humanity … the mundane/profane life as a human.

Life is never the same though … no wood pile … simply a return to your then existing station in life.
The only difference being you are now an instrument of the Divine. Like a member of a large symphony orchestra … no solo performance … yet … the music would not be the same without one of the members.

No more need for discernment … detachment … surrender. You simply know what to do in all circumstances.

You are such a romantic tom.

“No discernment”??

I’m pretty sure that you have to keep thinking until you die.

Read Abrams’ short book for a down to Earth view of God that can resolve the science vs religion controversy. Getting immersed in Eastern religious philosophy will not do it. There is a god within, which each person can know.

tom wrote

tom, you are not terribly old physically and your soul is eternal. Change horses?

I absolutely agree Phyllo

OTH … exercising ingrained habits don’t seem to require any thought(s)

Hi tom. :smiley:

Irrellus … are you of the opinion Eastern people(s) don’t believe there is a god within which each person can know?

Let me share a personal experience.

Several years ago I learned the Chinese expression “Dao De” … an expression known perhaps by 1 billion+ Chinese people. I never really understood why the notion underpinning this expression was taught to virtually all young Chinese people?

I associated the words “Dao” and “De” with Lao Tzu’s philosophy yet the Chinese people I met seem to know very little about Lao Tzu or his philosophy. For me … quite an enigma.

One day my wife Huang Hui uttered the expression in conversation … for the first time in about 8 years of marriage. I suppose this utterance prompted me to raise the issue with a young Chinese girl (16 years old) who I was helping to improve her English. This young girl was on her way to a Christian high school in America and she gave me the impression she knew almost nothing about Christianity.

I asked her the meaning of the Chinese expression “Dao De” … she looked at me kind of puzzled and replied … I can’t explain.

I understood her response to mean her English language skills were insufficient to explain such a complex notion. I can’t remember if I mentioned my interpretation of her response … in any event she started to address the question again.

She put her hand over her heart and said … it is written on my heart. I was blown away! Doesn’t it say somewhere in the Bible … I will write my laws on their hearts?

Technically it is the conscious soul(body/mind) rather than the heart which is an Earthly romantic notion. Sorry tom, continue, you will reach more of these folks than Ecmandu and I for you speak to goodness in a way they can understand.

Good morning WD :slight_smile:

My birth circumstances made me a member of the RC church … I am OK with wearing the “robe” to my funeral. :slight_smile:

RC church? _______Catholic?

… one instance involving one individual is obviously not very convincing … my intention is not to convince … only to suggest a direction to look in. Telling people … who decide to look in a direction proposed … what to see … Buddhists call “unskilled”.

On with my proposed direction.

About 400 years ago a Jesuit Missionary who spent his adult life in China … at some point during his life in China he went out on a limb and suggested to his superiors in the Vatican in Rome that the Chinese people already know the Christian God. Needless to say this likely went over like a shit sandwich! Such heresy!!

Matteo Ricci en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Ricci

Again … about 400 years ago his application for Sainthood was blocked by the Vatican … likely in no small part for his heretic thoughts.

A few years ago his application for Sainthood was put back on the table. Recently Pope Francis applauded his “intuition” … whatever that means.

One person’s heretic is another person’s savior. Merlin told me the RC, Roman, ah! Gotcha. :wink:

No I would not suggest that Eastern religions do not believe in a god within. Abrams believes that our emerging god includes our interactions with the physical world, that God is not spiritual as in other worldly, but is part of the physical universe, expressed in part in the anthropic principle, but including all life past and future. For her God is the human need to interact with nature and with other people. Hers is a naturalistic religion in which man’s highest aspirations emerge as god and become man’s higher power. Her god is personal and universal, but is not supernatural.
Julian Huxley would have loved Abrams’ book because it is concerned with all mankind and notes that human destiny should be the goal of religious endeavors. (See my thread on A Natural Religion)

Roman Catholic.

Ah, so she believes in both theosis and pantheism. I am similar. Abrams vaguely sounds like Martine Rothblatt’s Terasem Movement Transreligion that gained a slight audience. Rothblatt’s beliefs were that of a naturalistic religion - one that does not believe in souls but believes in mankind’s destiny to create the divine within the Universe. Through technology. Trans-humanism. She figures that all life will be made anew again, someday. It also vaguely sounds like The Omega Point, coined by the Catholic priest, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

(This post went from RC to something else and back to RC, in a thread that is named, ‘“I Am God” Stuff’… Very interesting…)

The RC church continues to evolve … albeit almost always in a reactive mode versus proactive. The RC institution changes when it can no longer control the story. For example, Galileo, Copernicus, Columbus, Luther, Ricci and more recently Pierre Teillard de Chardin.

Nonetheless … the very survival of all large institutions … religious, political, economic, social and so on … depends in no small part on their prescience … ability to identify changing conditions early and adapt/evolve with such changes. A willingness to change or adapt is often not enough … reading the signs is of paramount importance. Like the farmers who must learn to read the signs for impending weather conditions.

Reminds me of an experience on one of my trips to Israel about 20 years ago. In Jerusalem … I was staying in a hostel in the Old City at the time. I woke up around 3:00 AM one morning and decided to go out for a walk … unusual for me. I walked into the new city … to a Dunkin Donuts I had discovered in a previous visit … seems my coffee and cigarette addiction is a good thing from time to time. :slight_smile:

In the coffee shop I browsed a paper that was sitting on the counter … I found an article that I’ve kept … remains one of my few possessions. The closing paragraph in this article speaks to my above comments.

Woe to the man who says that this Tora wishes to relate simple stories.” We must internalize the profound truth hidden herein.
Great events in our national existence cannot be understood and decisions that will shape our people’s future cannot be made in the ‘Yishaq mode.’ In order to perceive the direction and orientation that must be assumed, to come to terms with the steps that must be taken, and to possess the self-assuredness simply to know when something is right, and to be therefore willing to lead the way -for all these, something more than rigid loyalty to tradition is required.
Our Geula, which was prophetically mapped out for us long ago, is the. ‘What.’ We must supply the ‘How.’
Rav David Bar Hayim is the head of the Makhon Ben Yishai Institute for Tora Research in Jerusalem

This Geula?

There you go again … prodding me to expand my tiny pool of knowledge. :slight_smile:

had to do some research … found some interesting stuff … some of the stuff sounds like you wrote it. :slight_smile: … more here chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=2675

“[b]Ge’ulah,” describes the state of being aware of (i.e., knowing) G-d. This results from a detailed understanding of how G-d created (and constantly sustains) the world(s), as Chassidus teaches.

Hence, for e.g., we find in “From Exile to redemption,” The Rebbe’s teaching that the difference between exile (Golah) and redemption (Ge’Ulah) is the letter “Aleph,” which the Alter Rebbe says represents the “Alupho Shel Olam,” i.e. G-d.[/b]

There are many forms of god complexes and not all of them are religious in nature.

Concerning religious attributes narcissism seems to be an intricate part.