Our 'angelic' nature

…eternity…does take its toll.

Yeah this implies a somewhat pleasant way of referencing the devil

Nice metaphor WD!

Reminds me of Augustine’s claim … paraphrasing … the journey from the ‘City of Man’ to the ‘City of Love’(eternity) is long, difficult, depressing, exhilarating, exciting and joyful. Seems one’s feelings along this journey depend on their spiritual awareness.

Found the following video this morning … “The Lie We Live” … 24 million+ viewers … yet another rant against the elite … the 1%.

IMHO … we don’t live a lie … we live without conscious access to the complete truth … like trying to play a complex game of cards without a full deck.

youtube.com/watch?v=ipe6CMvW0Dg

That wasn’t a metaphor, it was real crazy talk or crazy real talk, your decision. I’ll have to watch the video later if it’s worth watching. Is it?
If not you will be chased with a pitchfork, just promising! :astonished: :laughing:

I’ll opt for “crazy real talk” :slight_smile:

With 24 million+ views some people buy into it … yet … like I was saying the other day … IMO much of what is written on ILP has more intrinsic value … if one has the stomach to overlook some of the “delivery” techniques employed.

Sigh!! … the pitfalls of language … the word “joy” comes to mind. Augustine eloquently describes the bandwidth of the word joy after his Milan experience … IMO his words are worth reading.

“How unhappy I was and how conscious you made me of my misery, on that day when I was preparing to deliver a panegyric on the emperor. In the course of it I would tell numerous lies and for my mendacity would win the good opinion of people who knew it to be untrue.
The anxiety of the occasion was making my heart palpitate and perspire with the destructive fever of the worry, when I passed through a Milan street and noticed a destitute beggar.
Already drunk, I think, he was joking and laughing. I groaned and spoke with the friends accompanying me about the many sufferings that result from our follies.
In all our strivings such as those efforts that were than worrying me, the goads of ambition impelled me to drag the burden of my unhappiness with me, and in dragging it to make it even worse; yet we had no goal other than to reach a carefree cheerfulness.
That beggar was already there before us, and perhaps we would never achieve it. For what he had gained with a few coins, obtained by begging, that is the cheerfulness of temporal felicity, I was going about to reach by painfully twisted and roundabout ways.
True joy he had not. But my quest to fulfill my ambitions was much falser. There was no question that he was happy and I racked with anxiety. He had no worries; I was frenetic, and if anyone had asked me if I would prefer to be merry or to be racked with fear, I would have answered ‘to be merry’.
Yet if he asked whether I would prefer to be a beggar like that man or the kind of person I then was, I would have chosen to be myself, a bundle of anxieties and fears.
What an absurd choice! Surely it could not be the right one. For I ought not to have put myself above him on the ground of being better educated, a matter from which I was deriving no pleasure. My education enabled me to seek to please men, not to impart to them any instructions, but merely to purvey pleasure. For that reason you ‘broke my bones’ (Ps. 41: 11;50: 10) with the rod of your discipline(Ps. 22: 4).”

Tom wrote

You do seem to favor Augustine, I’m curious as to why? Now forgive my delivery, but wasn’t his ego needing a break or two, if not in bone then from itself?

Why do I favor Augustine? It’s quite a long story … in a nutshell … I have spent the past 25 years or so in a boat with a large sail and no rudder. Augustine was one of a handful of individuals who came and sat in the boat with me for a while.

The anecdote I quoted is one of Augustine’s many experiences where his ego ‘cracked’ or broke. His book “Confessions” is peppered with other examples. Don’t misunderstand me … I’m not suggesting Augustine was perfect … I take exception to some of his stuff.

Now that I’m here let me cite a couple of examples where I find some of the thought projections on ILP more meaningful than the video viewed by 24 million+ people.

  1. Can’t remember the author … I think Turd … “If it wasn’t for male aggression we would still be shitting in the sand in Africa.” … crude yet profoundly true! My intuitive reaction after reading this was … “If male aggression doesn’t soon take a back seat to female empathy, compassion, nurturing … survivors may once again be shitting in the sand in Africa.”

  2. Seems UP is on the same page with his/her OP ‘Lack of Feminine Women in Society’.

  3. One of Amorphos’s comments on the Zhuang Zi parable … Liberation of the Frog. He wrote … " relying upon only what we know puts us in that well." Let me paraphrase … relying on what our sense perceptions deliver to our mind … despite rigorous debate and analysis … puts us in that well. IMO … the author of the popular video is in the well.

You did that long trek alone, correct? A walk of faith?

I’ve never officially sailed boat style, only wind surfing in which directionality is accomplished without a rudder, sail only.

Pretty much … became more and more alone as time passed.

Yup!

I’ve never done either … boat style or wind surfing :smiley:

Alone or lonely? I know you a bit then Tom. I hope your kids are well. I like when you give me the full teethy grin. :smiley:

It’s sad but women are hardening. Men and women approach each other quite differently, different testing methods in the trust departments. Women give trust, if not 100% immediately, it happens fairly quickly. Men withhold trust, it must be earned over time. As the women are earning trust, the men are losing the trust given to them by missteps. The men count good deeds, the women count bad deeds. Both systems are flawed. Getting tired. Rambling.

Both alone and lonely from time to time … even in a crowd!

I wish I knew … I have 6 children and 9 grandchildren … only ever met 2 of my grandchildren.

Why are you denying your Grandkids their Grandpa?

a really wise person helped me to understand … …eternity…does take its toll. :slight_smile:

I suspect my children fear my ‘insanity’ may somehow rub off on them or their children … a bit like the fate of Socrates.

While I have abandoned as much of ‘ritual’ as possible I nonetheless cling to hope that one day we will be reconciled … may take a couple hundred years though :smiley:

The ‘insanity’ is not arranging third party “safe” visitations with those kids. Don’t you have some rights as a Grandparent? “Why are you letting them dismiss you?” asked the Fire Rooster in her indoor voice.

WD … your feminine “halo” is showing … :smiley:

Our recent thought exchanges reinforced my belief that our sense perceptions … massaged with reason … peppered with cultural traditions and rituals NEVER provide a complete picture. We consistently make assessments and judgements based on incomplete pictures of reality … such is the human condition.

Are you seeing yourself clearly?

the image in the mirror … figuratively speaking … is getting clearer every day … though … the changes are not linear nor do they have any regularity time wise.

Why do you need a mirror?