Analytic Truth-Value

When I say that an object is 10cm in length I am doing so because of my need and not because the object-in-itself is 10cm.

A different need would require, and thus yield, a different measurement. Say 10.064368cm.

There is external reality but there are no objects-in-themselves.

We arrest the flux.
We must stop the rolling of a dice in order to read its value.

If there’s so much flux, then why is a precise measurement 10.06438… Seems like it could be -7.21?? Right??

In science a testable hypothesis has to be potentially falsifiable. Non testable hypotheses are not valid because they cannot be potentially falsifiable. Even
if they are true. And whilst theory and hypothesis might be interchangeable terms in common vernacular they have very specific and different meanings in
science. A theory is the highest body of work in science incorporating laws and principles to formulate a single unification and so nothing is above a theory
Whereas a hypothesis is at the other end of the spectrum and so is essentially no more than a reasonable guess or estimate based upon existing knowledge

It’s up to you, and not up to me, to prove the existence of objects-in-themselves.

Can you prove that there is an object that has a real, ultimate, length?

How can you when there is no option but to run into the problem of infinity?

No matter how much you zoom into an object, it is always logically possible to zoom into it further.

What is the exact length of an object?
10cm?
10.0cm?
10.06cm?
10.068cm?
10.0685cm?
. . .

Need, and not external reality, decides what measurement is good enough.

Personal, and not universal, boundaries decide what measurement is good enough.

Objects are not “in themselves” they are themselves…

So that’s already a non starter.

I agree with you that desire is the impetus for our knowledge about a universe that also exists out there.

We cannot change that it’s 10 cm, or if we need to calculate further that it’s a complex decimal.

I’ve actually said this many times on the boards…

Without desire, there is no truth to the external…

What is a being without desire?

Such a being doesn’t even exist …

Being is necessary, not contingent …

We are all here

Any object will have a real ultimate length but it may not be possible to measure it with absolute accuracy

What you have to do is to show to me that ultimate reality, such as ultimate dimensions of an object, can be sensed and not merely imagined.

Do you know the difference between sensation and imagination?

When you see, with your own eyes, an apple on a table, that is sensation.

When you imagine in your head an apple on a table, that is imagination.

When you imagine there is an apple on a table, that is projected imagination.

Projected imagination can be a random guess, or a guess based on personal preference, but it can also be an educated guess, which is a guess based on experience.

Whatever its from, imagination can never be anything more than imagination. It can never become sensation.

This is where language can confuse us.

In everyday parlance, the word reality is used to refer to BOTH what is sensed and what is not sensed but is imagined based on experience.

We say “there is a tree in our backyard” both when we are looking at it and when we are not looking at it but can expect it to be there based on our prior observations.

When one and the same word is associated with two distinct concepts, one must be careful not to conflate the concepts.

Senses and intellect are not equal.
Senses are fundamental.

Though predictions must refer to some sensory event in time, theoretical constructs need not. They can be as imaginary as you want them to be.

If you want to believe that every event in the universe is determined by some supreme being, that is fine, so as long you admit that it’s nothing more than imagination (that is not projected and that is thus without implications and beyond testing.)

The problem begins when you confuse theoretical constructs with reality.

When you fail to understand that things such as ultimate objects (or objects-in-themselves), causality, laws, etc are theoretical constructs and not reality itself.

Thinking people use far more than mere sensations.

They use far more sensations. Thanks to their memory.

No can do since there is no such thing as ultimate reality just reality

Okay. But just a post ago you said that there is such a thing as ultimate length of an object. Won’t that be a contradiction? Unless, somehow, ultimate length is not an aspect of ultimate reality.

The ultimate length of an object means the precise measurement of it. This is impossible to know if it is an infinite real number. Saying reality
is not ultimate does not contradict this for the word is being employed in a different context there. And so reality is all that exists. There is no
single part of it that is ultimate. What criteria would be employed to differentiate between the ultimate and non ultimate? The answer is none

You say that an object may have an ultimate length but that it is impossible to know it.

I don’t know why you say may. Anything may. For example, God may exist. The real question is not whether it may or may not exist – a non-issue since anything may exist – but whether you think it does or does not exist.

More importantly, in order to speak of something existing or not, that something must be something to which the word existence can be applied: it must be some projected sensory event. If it is not, if it is merely projected imagination, then it makes little sense to speak of it existing or not.

You can use words any way you like. You can attach the word existence to anything you want. But the underlying concept remains the same: it’s either a projected sensory event or not.

In order to so much as be able to discuss whether God exists or not, the word God must be a reference to some sensory event. If it is not, then it’s merely imaginary, and as such, it makes no sense to speak of its existence other than in imaginary terms.

The concept of ultimate length, for example, does not refer to any sensory event.

What does ultimate length mean after all?

It means that at every point in time, an object has definite length. This means that if you freeze time and zoom into the object for infinity, you would eventually reach a point where the measurement of its length would stop changing. That final measurement would be definite length.

In reality, we can neither freeze time nor zoom into an object for infinity. Thus, definite length cannot be sensed – it’s not a sensory event.

Ultimate length is an aspect of ultimate reality. There are many other aspects of it: ultimate volume, ultimate mass, ultimate shape, etc. If you believe in ultimate anything, then you believe in ultimate reality.

In order to exist, it must affect something.

Not without suffering the consequences.

If you, the observer, is occupying the exact same density of space as an object, the length will remain exactly the same.

You are stuck in the abstract, the imaginary, the auxiliary. There is no hope for you.

How imaginative of you.

You are a retard who refuses to accept the fact that theories are built on top of sensory information and that there is absolutely nothing limiting the sequence in which sensory events unfold.

You insist on conflating different concepts of existence by reducing everything to the theoretical construct that is affectance.

Never will you admit that what ultimately matters is predictions and whether they turn out to be true or not.

How can it yield “sensory information” if it doesn’t affect anything?

I don’t know what you’re talking about with the chaos bit, but I can answer these, because they have the same answer. You seem to be underestimating the power of language. A thing does not have to be precisely defined or quantified in order for somebody to make use (even fairly detailed use) of a symbol for it. Think about all the things poets said about the sun throughout the ages without having a clue what it actually is. That’s how ‘everything’ works. You can make logical statements about everything without knowing what everything consists of very easily. The definition “All things that exist” works well with everything, and you certainly don’t need to reference a complete list of what qualifies in order to understand the definition, or to go on to make statements around it.

Zero is just a way of signifying that there is nothing in a spot where something could have been. So for example in the number .505. it’s not equal to .55. Something needs to go between the fives to indicate the concept of a ‘hundredths’ position despite the fact that there’s nothing in that position. Note also that some people would write out 0.505, but it’s often skipped because it doesn’t signify anything that isn’t already indicated by the decimal point.

You’ll find this pattern in non-mathematical speech, too. If somebody takes the time to tell you that they don’t have something (or have zero of something), it’s because they they expected to have it or thought they should have it, so that specific lack is significant. Nobody is going to (or can) list off all the things they lack.

Correction of mindrape currently going on here:

In order to affect, it must exist. Not the other way around.

Existence is the most basic rational postulate. Qualifying existence comes subsequent to that postulate as such, period.

Proceed.