"Chelsea" Manning's Sentence Commuted by Obama

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Leaking classified Government documents to the people is a good thing because you value transparency, but leaking unclassified DNC documents to the public is a bad thing becaue it makes an election ‘unfair’? Why isn’t it ‘tranparency’ to learn how the CNN was leaking debate questions to Hillary and that the Bernie campaign was sabotaged by his own party? Don’t you think leaking information about what the CIA, NSA, etc. has an effect on elections? Does that make those elections ‘unfair’?

I’m not asking whether there’s a difference in the tactics employed by the right and left wings. I don’t think there really is. And I think you know that there isn’t either. I was asking about fairness in elections and transparency in government. Is one more important than the other?

Transparency in government would cover the elections, yes?

Yes, you’re asking a loaded question, and doing a tapdance to avoid my answer, and replying with an even more loaded question. You want to talk about transparency in government, but not transparency in elections. When talking about elections, you drop transparency out and replace it with ‘fairness’, because you know your argument is fucking bullshit. Let me make it as plain as possible: If you care about transparency, you care about transparency. Any argument that we ought to know what the NSA is up to is an argument that we ought to know what the DNC and CNN are up to. The unfairness in this election was the DNC undermining Bernie Sanders, and the media colluding with the Hillary Clinton campaign. The people getting to find out that this happened is not ‘unfairness’, it’s the very essence of fairness that a cheater be caught and revealed before they are graded. If you whine when this sort of thing is revealed to the people, but chest-thump about transparency when government secrets are revealed to the people, then you aren’t standing on any principle, you’re simply shilling for a political party.

Depends on what aspect of the elections you’re talking about. Strictly speaking, what goes on within a political party has nothing to do with the government, it’s just a bunch of civilians talking shit. It still has big effect on the government, sure, but transparency laws and policy don’t really apply. For example, you can’t use a FOIA request to demand a political party to reveal their budget.

Secret ballots? Private property? Why so harsh? Your brush is too broad. Reality is nuanced.

K: actually that is true… Reality is nuanced and that fact is lost on a lot of people…
reality is not black or white, right or wrong, just or unjust, reality is just shades of gray
and a lot of both black and white, right and wrong, just and unjust…
a lot of people around here act as if reality is right or wrong, whereas reality can
be at the exact same time right and wrong and for the exact same reasons…how
do you understand something that can be so different at the same time otherwise
known as Schroedinger’s cat…is a great description of reality, both dead and alive
at the same time, right and wrong at the same time, just and unjust at the same time…
how do we create a truth about something that can be so diverse? and so full of
possibilities…

Kropotkin

the reality is Manning is both innocent and guilty at the same time…
that is reality of the matter…
how do we decide?

Kropotkin

Please provide evidence that the manning was directly responsible for 1 million deaths.

Then provide evidence that those 1 million deaths had any good people that died.

Then provide evidence that Manning’s actions saved no good people from death.

Then provide evidence that the amount of good that came from Mannings actions was less than the amount of good that suffered from Manning’s actions.

Then provide evidence that torture is a just punishment for murder.

What Manning did doesn’t hurt the DNC, so he gets a pass. That, apparently, is how we decide.

K: have you ever seen a doctor for your OCD…You are quite fixated on this DNC thing…
it isn’t healthy to be so…fixated…

Kropotkin

You should have a look through your own post history sometime, you know, since you clearly aren’t busy replying to people’s points.

U: What Manning did doesn’t hurt the DNC, so he gets a pass. That, apparently, is how we decide.
[/quote]
K: have you ever seen a doctor for your OCD…You are quite fixated on this DNC thing…
it isn’t healthy to be so…fixated…

M: You should have a look through your own post history sometime, you know, since you clearly aren’t busy replying to people’s points."

K: some people’s post aren’t worth replying to and some people post, I mean to reply to
but I forget to reply because I am rather busy at times and some people, I think are
clearly insane and I don’t answer them… so it depends on what is going on…
I recently work 10 days in a row… sometimes it is hard to reply while working 10 days
in a row…

Kropotkin

Always got time for an insult though.

K: actually if you look at my posts, I rarely ever insult… unless they are deserved…
I rarely ever give it my best though… I hold back quite a bit these days…

people around here are such snowflakes…kinda like their savior, Herr Trumpf…

Kropotkin

They aren’t philosophers man.

K: no, they aren’t philosophers…they just regurgitate the same crap they
heard when they were 12…they hold their beliefs very tight…

It is not enough to have the courage of our convictions,
we must also have the courage for an attack upon our convictions…
Nietzsche…

Kropotkin

Ucc, are you able to conceive a single instance of anything at all that isn’t a matter of right vs left?

As someone who deeply respects Ucci, I have to say that I am deeply disappointed by the transphobia in this thread. I’m a natsec dove but I get the natsec hawk argument against Chelsea. I feel there is a legitimate space for disagreement there.

But shitting on transfolks as a means to delegitimize them is super beneath you Ucci.

I can’t ask you to be perfect. I can’t even ask you to be good. But I can ask you to be better. So, Ucci, please be better.

For me. Not because of logic or reason. But because I am asking you. Are you willing to do that?