2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Alcohol and mary jane are downers, so try caffeine, the upper, by its lonesome in (80% cocoa content or higher)small chocolate pieces. No caffeine drinks.

What? You can’t tell me no drinks! slaps hand :laughing:

But it’s an intriguing idea nonetheless. So 80% cocoa or higher, you say, huh? How much chocolate would I have to eat to reach, let’s say, one cup of coffee?

http://www.builtlean.com/2012/04/12/raw-chocolate/

Basically 4 ounces = 1 8oz. coffee (however good coffee tastes it does not have the health benefits)

Thank you very much, Mongoose, I will be trying that.

You’re very welcome Gibmuffin. :mrgreen:

Well, this is the start of my 6th abstinence experiment, and as Mongoose said, this time it will feature caffeine and that’s it. I will be trying her suggestion of 80% dark chocolate, but not all the time. I might try it on one of my “off-caffeine” days. For the most part, I save my caffeine days for Friday, but on occasion I do need a small pick-me-up during the week. When that happens, I usually have half a cup of coffee for the day and that’s it. Maybe on one of these days, I’ll try Mongoose’s suggestion.

So starting today, Jan 1 2017 (Happy New Year everyone!!! :occasion-balloons: ), 'til Feb 28 2017, I will only be consuming caffeine as my choice of drug.

And now an aside: I think these experiments I’ve been conducting on myself since December of 2013 have been working. At the beginning, I started with the attitude that this was just going to be an experiment, nothing more, and that based on the results I’d decide whether or not I wanted to get off the drugs. Now it’s become more than that. I actual do want to get off the drugs–even before the experiments are over–and I’m sure of that. I’m even looking forward to it.

However…

The experiments must continue if they are to be successful at all. But so far, they seem to be working. They’re having the desired effect.

That means I have to go through two more rounds after this–they will include 2 months of alcohol only, and 2 months of cannibinoids only–and in keeping with prior ideas, I’d like to keep them 3 months apart if I can. That means the next round after this will be June/July of 2017 and round 3 will be Nov/Dec 2017. However, like last year when I didn’t want any of my stints to overlap the office Christmas party so I pushed it 'til now, this time I think I’m going to do the same for 2017. So the final stint will probably be Jan/Feb of 2018. I’ll give myself 3 months of usual intoxication after that, and then I’m going to go a full year, if not more, completely alcohol and drug free. I feel I need a full year (at least) because these 2 month stints don’t seem to be providing enough data. If you look at the chart, they are averaging between slightly positive to moderately positive.

I figure a full year will not only provide more data, but will really give my body a good chance to adjust and start adding more meaning/excitement to my life on its own rather than depending on the drugs for that. It will also provide me the opportunity to try seeking out other substitutes, things that might add a richer spiritual dimension to my life–Moreno suggested taking up some extreme sports, Mongoose suggests OBE’s (btw, Mongoose, if you’re reading this, this is why I said I’d get back to you about that after roughly a year), might get into meditation again–but something definitely has to replace the drugs, and starting in the summer of 2018, I’ll start trying these things. ← This is part of the reason I’m looking forward to it.

And at the end of this (at least) one year stint, I will, once again, give myself the option of making a choice right then and there. This would be opposed to giving myself a short period (like a few months) of intoxication after the (at least) full year before deciding once and for all. My decision, of course, will be what I want to give up and what I want to keep. I feel at least the caffeine will have to go because it has the most noticeable effects on my energy levels, and I know from past experiences of abstinence, after a while without caffeine, my body’s natural energy levels do come back. ← That was the plan all along. But I feel that if this (at least) one year proves fruitful, and indeed spiritual, then it will provide more incentive to give up all the drugs. I think this has to be an option since it surreptitiously allows me to look back and say: I really quit summer of 2018.

The fact that now I know I want this gives me confidence that I will make the choice right then and there and that I will choose abstinence. Even if all the new age spiritual mumbo jumbo junk turns out to be a farce, I’m confident that having a whole year (at least) behind me of experiences without drugs or alcohol will tell me that my life is indeed better now.

That being said, I do want to continue exploring alternate mind states but without becoming addicted to the drugs. I know I can do that. For example, what if I got my hands on some DMT? I’d allow myself maybe 4 or 5 sessions with it and then dump the rest. I have absolutely no doubts that I can do such a thing without becoming addicted. The problem isn’t physical addiction. It’s my attitude and values–this whole thread being an exercise in reprogramming them. And I know that I can tell myself “4 or 5 sessions and that’s it” and commit to that. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I’ve always had a knack for carrying through with the things I say I’ll carry through with. Trying new drugs for the sake of exploring new experience won’t be a problem. ← And this is really what I wanted all along–to be able to delve into these mind states for the sake of knowing them without becoming addicted. That’s the practice I want to keep. And who knows–with any luck, all the spiritual mumbo jumbo shit I get into might introduce me to some alternative, healthier, drug free ways of doing it (Moreno did hint that he’s able to see God).

Now I keep saying “at least” one full year. Why? Because the full year that I want is going to be about more than just abstinence from all drugs and alcohol, it’s also going to be about letting go of all the major things in my life that are dragging me down. This includes the drugs, of course, but it also includes my book. I want to be done publishing it, and for that I might need a deadline later than the summer of 2018 (if I were to guess, I’d say maybe an extra six months). ← Those are the two “anchors” in my life that I feel are weighing me down, keeping me from full spiritual freedom. (There’s also my children, but I don’t want to let them go). So it might end up being a year and a half (and that’s a good thing… more data).

But that’s all for the long term. Right now, my focus is on the next two month: no alcohol or drugs except for (chocolaty) caffeine.

I got around to trying Mongoose’s suggestion today. I bought a bunch of Lindt Excellence dark chocolate bars. They’re 70% cacao (couldn’t find any 80%), each 35g. So I ate two of them. I felt a little bit of something, but not much. Equivalent to about half a cup of coffee. Not sure if this is placebo or the real deal. Anyway, to get something around the ball park of 2 to 3 cups of coffee, I’d probably have to eat about 10 of these things. I don’t really want to do that.

I bought a couple more, so I might try this out again later in the week.

Tried it again today. 2 chocolate bars. Was feeling a bit groggy at first, now I feel a bit more perked up. I’d say a bit more noticeable than a placebo.

=D> Finally! Glad you are noticing positive, healthier returns.

done.

So? Results? :mrgreen:

Sorry Wendy, not in the mood right now.

Maybe on the weekend.

I was surprised at how easy it turned out to be to not think of drinking on my high caffeine days. Not to say this never happened, but being committed to no booz or other drugs made it incredibly easy to push those thoughts out of my mind when they arose, making them far and few between. ← Which goes to reinforce my thoughts about how at least half the battle in overcoming addiction is the resolve to do so. It’s one thing to say to yourself “I really ought to get off the drugs but I just don’t feel like it right now,” and “I really ought to get off the drugs and gosh darn it, I’m gonna do it!” Just being able to say the latter is half the battle–at least half the battle, and if you’re lucky like me, the other half will be relatively simple (i.e. in the sense that if your resolve to commit to it is set in stone, pushing thoughts to the contrary out of your mind will almost certainly shut off the urges). Not to mention the fact that one of the effects of caffeine is to increase your will power. Compare this to the urge to eat when you’re hungry. Speaking from experience, that’s an urge that doesn’t just leave your mind just because you’ve resolved to diet. If you’re hungry, you’re hungry. ← That’s the body telling you: no, you’ve got to eat. The urge to drink when I’m highly caffeinated is more like the thought of how much fun I could have if I cheated–just this once–but then if that thought is followed up by: not gonna happen, then it pretty much becomes a settled matter, and then the urge just goes away. But hunger pangs don’t just go away even if you tell them: not gonna happen. And it’s not so much that this makes the urge to eater so much harder to resist–you can exercise the thought “not gonna happen” just as easily every time the urge to eat is felt, but since it happens so frequently and doesn’t shut up, that just increases the odds that you’ll slip one of those times. Not to mention the fact that if you know you’re gonna have to keep telling those urges to STFU, you kinda lose the will to try: it all of a sudden seems to make more sense to shut them up now so that you don’t have to deal with them for hours on end.

PERKS TO BEING ON A CAFFEINE ONLY DRUG DIET:

  • Get a bit more work done, but not a hell of a lot. Unless you’ve become completely tolerant to caffeine, it has a tendency to boost your energy and your will power–if you channel all that energy and will power into getting things done, you can check off a lot of items on your todo list. Pot makes you lazy, not wanting to do anything except listen to music. Alcohol too, but for subtly different reasons, and the next day, you’re definitely not getting much done for obvious reasons. Ironically, I found that I get more sleep on this caffeine only diet. Yes, I still made Fridays my caffeine days which meant I was up 'til the wee hours of the morning, but I generally felt like going to bed around 1:00AM (usually doing work or posting on ILP until then), whereas my habit on Friday nights would usually consist of getting drunk (usually between 10 and 11 PM), then stoned (usually between midnight and 1), and then I wouldn’t be going to bed until 4:00AM. But of course, that comes at the cost of being super tired the next day and having to endure a hangover. Without the booz and drugs, I’m still tired the next day but it’s not nearly as bad.

  • I save money. Booz are pretty expensive, obviously, especially if you get the urge to go out (which I do).

  • Generally happy. Although I try to abstain from caffeine except on Fridays or Saturdays, sometimes I’ll cheat and have half a cup or a full cup of coffee (enough to get me by). Usually, these are on days when I’m tired and falling asleep at my desk at work. During the last two months, I’ve noticed that half a cup to a full cup is generally all I need to perk up my mood and get my brain going–I can think more clearly, I can talk more fluently, I’m a bit more sociable–but all without the caffeine buzz… essentially, feeling normal.

CONS:

  • I still need the caffeine to feel like this. Without it, I’m still tired and cranky. This, of course, is the result of caffeine withdrawal, and I know from experience that I can get over it by abstaining for a good week or two. But given that these two months were an experiment in what life is like if limited only to my regular caffeine routine, I had to stick to the routine. So it was generally this: either drudge through fatigue and aching muscles or cheat a little by having 1/2 to 1 cup of coffee for the day.

  • No alcohol buzz, no drug high… for obvious reasons.

Take home lesson: I could get used to this–wouldn’t be that bad a life–but I know that after 1 to 2 weeks of total caffeine abstinence, life could be a lot better. I know I’m going to miss the fun nights of subjecting myself to a drunken intoxicated stupor–I’ll miss those dearly–but I also have to remind myself that these come at a high cost: hangover next day, more fatigue, less work getting done, etc.–almost enough to make the whole thing not worth it. ← This is the part that I’m going to have to give special attention to. I will never be conditioned to give up the drugs by the negative consequences–the brain doesn’t work that way, it only works according to whatever is the most immediate consequence. I get caffeinated, drink booz, get stoned, and experience an immediate pay-off. I go to bed (finally) and wake up the next morning feeling like shit. But the pay-off is experienced first, so it takes priority in conditioning me. That’s why it’s going to require an extra bit of awareness, an extra bit of resolve, to remind myself that the negative consequences, though they come later, may outweigh the positive, and therefore what’s really the best thing for me, what I really want, even just from a utilitarian point of view, is to give up the immediate gratification so as to secure for myself more long-term benefits.

I really think it’s gonna have to be all or nothing. Even though I think I could get used to a life of tiny bits of caffeine every now and then (half a cup ever odd day, maybe the occasional full cup), I know myself: it will only lead to a slippery slope–maybe not right away but eventually–I’ll end up allowing myself those total caffeine buzz Fridays or Saturdays, and it won’t take long for that to become a habit, and then it’s just a matter of time before sliding down the next slipper slope–back into drugs and alcohol.

^ So none of that. It’s all or nothing for me. Summer of 2018, baby!

So, what hobby or hobbies did you substitute? You didn’t beat addiction, all you did was change what you were addicted to.

Yes, and that’s the whole point of this exercise–to attach myself to healthy things, not unhealthy things. The two things which are holding me back in my life are the drugs and my book. If I can get these things done and over with, there will be very little left holding me back. I’ll still be addicted to breathing, but that don’t hold me back. I’ll still be addicted to my children, but they don’t hold me back. If I can get myself addicted to extreme sports, paranormal experiences, building my business, not only will those not hold me back, but they will be the very things I want to strive towards.

Here’s the question, I guess, that comes next, after this following statement: What you call healthy addictions are still to distract your mind from thinking about the things you’re running from. That being said, the question: What will you do when years past this point, your book is done, the drugs behind you and the nightmares come back, the thoughts come back, the insecurities, the fears, the overwhelming forces? The fact is that while doing drugs, you are already addicted to extreme sports of a variety; paranormal experiences of a variety, and the continued decimation of your psyche and if you run from them now, when they recur, and they will recur, they will still hold you back at a much more crucial and critical point of your life.

You are addicted beyond breathing, and not just addicted; because if it was just addiction, then walking away from drugs would be just a matter of dealing with withdrawals, but it isn’t just addiction because you like the drugs, don’t want to quit except you believe that they are ruining your life based on what people tell you. What will you do when it hits you the same while completely sober and isn’t just a flashback or a ptsd experience, but the sheer fact that things weren’t done with you. You are addicted to the idea that quitting drugs entirely will help you, and in a way, it can, but only if you recognize what its’ helping. Separation anxiety, bipolar, anger, fear, pain, temptation. And, did you know that even if you quit, you’ll never 100% walk away. You say to attach yourself to healthy things, but even those healthy things can kill. What kills us is often the very same thing we survived with for ages, or the very same thing that cures us. And, it’s not like you can just jump ship from the track you’re in, with your book at the least. You’ll keep pushing your limits to finish it in unhealthy manners until you push through breaking points like I did in my life with my pursuit. Oh, I rush and rush until life’s no fun; all I gotta do is live and die, but I rush and rush and don’t know why.

I’m not sure what kind of psychological process you’re referring to here, so I can’t really answer this. In any case, it doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that the drugs help. Do you seriously recommend continuing the drugs?

This whole thread, RF, is an experiment. The whole point is to see what the result of a drug-free life are. I’m giving myself that year and a half (or thereabouts) beginning summer 2018. ← If during that year and a half, I find that everything you say above is right, that quitting the drugs didn’t help in the slightest (or made my life worse), that will answer the question, it will be the results I was looking for. I’m doubting your right, but that’s the point of experimenting.

the result of a drug-free life is the same as a life filled with drug use: death. You will experience the same things you have experienced on drugs while sober, but you will experience them differently because you are sober. You will experience some things the same and some things so different as to leave you unable to find the connecting bind and tie to something you know until later on.

You can doubt me all you want, but time WILL tell. It’s what I’ve come to expect of so many stubborn shitheads in the world around me, that I can tell them any truth I want and they will still stubbornly and thick-headed try to prove me wrong even after extensive evidence. Just to, ‘see for themselves’. Which is one of the main reasons why we can’t have perfection. it’s not that we can’t reach it; we’re too stubborn.

You do realize that, from my perspective, you’re just a dumb schmuck on the internet. You must have some inflated image of yourself to prance around thinking that everyone should bask in your wisdom just because you say so. If you actually had evidence, which you don’t, that might help. Since you don’t, I’ve got to collect my own evidence, and that’s what I’m doing. Yes, I’ve got to “see for myself” ← I wouldn’t have it any other way.

I do realize that your perspective is that of an insulted monkey. I didn’t insult you, did I? Must have been something you misread and just assumed I insulted you. Must be that I said something you just didn’t like. You say the same thing as so many others, that I just expect people to do what I say JUST because I say so and that I expect people to bask in my wisdom. If only you can so many others could actually take back the words in bitterness spoken that they knew were not the truth; if only they and you could have bitten your tongues. All you had to do was ask and I could have given you my fieldwork study on the effects of methamphetamines. I could have gone into detail about my own sobriety, my dabblings with marijuana, etcetera. I could have described each experience I had, how I experienced it while going through it and what I learned when looking back on that with new experience. I could have gone above and beyond, if you had only asked with the intent to sincerely listen and take to heart. I was speaking of people in general, and meant no disrespect by calling them stubborn and thick-headed. It can be a good thing, when properly used.

And, you know, for all that I am and all that I do, I could easily have an inflated image of self. But, you are right, I completely just prance around just like trixie; just like you.

And good for you… you go see for yourself and you go live it because you haven’t experienced it for yourself, disregarding whatever you might hear about it.

What really got you the most was the deflating of self-image you had when I gut-punched you with the truth about you not wanting to quit, only that you want to quit because it scares you some times, but you like and love the drugs beyond the addiction, beyond the habit. Go ahead and quit like every time you didn’t get your fix in time, go through the withdrawals; by all means, live your life, but don’t sit here and get pissy just because I respond to what you said publicly with knowledge and experience. Don’t make me smack you upside the head. Actually, forget that. Make me smack you upside the head, it’ll be good for you.