A plea for Consciousness

An analogy would be saying, “The explanation of magnet trains, is that a magnet trains moves using a magnet.”
Not a satisfying answer.

Not satisfying because,
Doesn’t explain the history behind building the magnet train, the exact mechanics of the magnet train, and the destination of the magnet train.

I am looking for, what is the History behind why consciousness is here on Earth, What exactly in the brain causes consciousness to operate, and perhaps are their functions outside of the brain such as a soul. And what is the destination of consciousness after it leaves our bodies

Why is consciousness here on Earth when their are 5 million other bodies.

Why is consciousness here in this body when there are 5 million other bodies

Consciousness arose on earth as a result of very simple organisms mutating their genes in such a way that allowed for an inside and outside partition to be erected between the organism and its environment, for example the boundary of a cell as its membrane, basically an exclusionary zone; originally there were very simple free floating RNA strands drawing amino acids and heat from the primordial soup around them to further the most basic replication of the strand, but soon strands started to code for basis “proteins” that allowed for some degree of protection as isolation from the soup and from other strands or from environmental hazards, namely an RNA strand that has mutated randomly to code for the creation of some protein molecules around itself was able to survive a bit more easily than strands without that. This was the beginning of evolution as natural selection, and over time RNA strands of amino acids became longer and coded for more complex proteins until basically a “cell” formed. The first cell was able to isolate itself from the surroundings via a cell membrane wall, which wall was also porous in the right way to allow needed amino acids inside for replication of the RNA strand. Eventually cells became able to provide for their own energy by converting other proteins taken from the environment (other RNA proto-cells) into energy as breaking apart those proteins to extract the amino acids out of which they are made, and using released chemical energy from these molecular processes as cellular energy to power an increasingly complex cellular protein machinery.

Later, small protein structures evolved to allow the cell to move around via little tail-like protrusions. This meant that the cell could divert some of its internal chemical energy into that tail causing it to spasm around, causing the cell to move randomly, which increased mobility and thus allowed further increase to survival potential since this cell was now able to encounter more free amino acids and more proteins from its environment than were other cells without such tails and thus basically just sat there helplessly in the currents of the soup.

From here, natural selection took these proto-cells to multicellular organisms and eventually to the first sea life. At some point a photosensitive cell evolved, which is just a cell that was able to respond inside itself to a differential of photons impacting the chemical machinery in that cell, and natural selection selected this mutation because now the organism could respond to the presence or absence of light. And so on and so on, until a whole cellular molecular machinery of sensorium had evolved. Look up sometime the molecular processes involved in your own eyesight, you will be amazed how utterly complex and intricate these processes are.

Eventually you had organisms evolving a central area in the multi-cell structure for where inputs from the sensorium converged, which allowed for different sense inputs to affect each other directly, leading to de facto coordination of inputs, leading to increased ability of the organism to direct its own movements to move toward what was good for it and avoid what was bad for it: this architecture of moving toward or away is what we call instincts, which rigidified over a long time as natural selection selected certain configurations of the sensoriums that happened to benefit the organism itself, by making it sensitive to the presence of nutrients and forming a connection between the flailing of the tail and the senses that could detect nutrients, again thanks to the convergence of inputs and outputs that would later become the nervous system.

Organisms that got eaten or that ate things unhealthy to it simply died off as their RNA structures did not live long enough to reproduce, so the evolution was being refined both ways, positively and negatively, until organisms were highly specialized to thrive in their environments.

Now, “consciousness” is basically just this same system of the evolving environmentally-sensitive organism carried forward to the nth power; eventually the instinct pathways were extensive enough and lengthy (internally spatial) enough qua chemical molecular chain-reaction processes that “time” appears in them, namely the time it takes from the impact of a stimulus to the reaction it ultimately causes from the organism was sufficient to produce an inner sense of time passing, which simply means that those instinct pathways were long and complex enough to tie in other instincts and biological processes, which meant that instinct became “self-responsive” and able to mediate its own interactions by siphoning off some of the chemical impetus from the chemical chain-reaction into other processes. This allowed for an “inner world” to start to appear as a kind of sense of the organism to itself, its ability to start to respond internally to its own responses… eventually this created mammal life and then humans.

Our own human consciousness is simply this mammal structure taken to the nth degree, and by various lucky genetic mutations we developed the capacity for digital (concrete repeatable phonemes) speech, for a weaker jaw muscle which allowed the cranium to soften and expand to allow a larger brain, and opposable thumbs that allow hugely increased controlled interaction with the environment. Long story short, early human ancestors evolved from primates as all those changes converged and we developed the basic capacity for, as I already called it, using our physical material organism and brains to respond to non-physical, non-material conditions such as the fact of something, or the deeper meaning of something, or the non-immediate of something (predicting a future state before it obtains). This is basically what our “self-consciousness” is now, a very complex machine of material processes that fills itself in with non-material things (“ideas”, etc.) in order to self-reprogram ourselves and each other over time and as what we call thought, emotions, and culture. This all gives us access to far more truth than any other animal can access. It’s what allowed us to make acute observations and record these in external texts and stories able to survive our own death and to spread insights to others who can read those texts or stories, thereby creating a huge external universe of ideas that grows over time. It is by virtue of that universe of ideas, so called, that infants today are educated and able to become human, otherwise without it they would just be feral, like feral kids raised in isolation from other people; such kids don’t become human, because they lack access to the universe or collected ideas and programmed response-patterns that make us human.

Consciousness is just a very complex system of reflex and response, and in humans this includes very complex self-reflexivity and self-responsiveness as well.

As for souls or consciousness outside the body, I can’t speak to that.

What makes you think consciousness is separable from the body?

OBE’s.

Have you or waechter experienced this?

One problem is that no one has ever, ever, ever, found consciousness in a body. We can chop the brain into a million pieces but we’ll never see consciousness. Only matter.

The second thing is that people have and can experience themselves as pure awareness, not located in any body or any other material “thing”. From this perspective the body not only seems like one object among many, but also it seems like the body is contained inside the mind and not vice versa. Further, this experience feels far more real, pure, natural, etc. then the typical experience of the mind being somewhere in the head/body.

Now I’m not going to outright say that there is not connection between consciousness and the body. Clearly there is. But I can’t say for certain that consciousness is reducible to the body any more than I can say that I am reducible to my car.

If you get a brain injury, your consciousness changes.

If you ingest brain-altering chemicals, your consciousness changes.

If your body is under stress, your consciousness changes.

If you get a bullet through the head, your consciousness changes.

Basically, consciousness is something that emerges from a certain kind of structure of the brain+body and the interaction of that structure with experiences. To believe anything else is nonsensical, unconfirmed reports of OBE’s notwithstanding.

Cool story bro

You think i have never been shot in alternate dimensions? I have been shot multiple times. I know what it feels like to nearly die. You can still think when you are dying, you make deals with God until they use 50 caliber.

Not really no. Your consciousness never really changes. Well at least mine does not. I have a distinct experience of being a spectator to my own reality, my voice/body at times, distinctly feels like it is someone else whom I don’t identify with.
I had a near death experience before, my consciousness didn’t really change, it felt the same.
Saying consciousness changes is like saying your consciousness changes when you enter a 711. The stimulus entering your consciousness changes but your consciousness remains the same

Why should they? Consciousness only exists as a first-person phenomenon–you can’t find it by looking for a third-person phenomenon.

I find it dubious to speculate on what some esoteric experience feels like as evidence for the possibility of the mind leaving the body. The only thing that would really challenge a view like mine (that the human mind is irrevocably tied to the brain) is OBEs; so unless this experience of “pure awareness” (whatever that is) is like looking at your body from a remote location, I’d say: why can’t the brain just produce such an experience?

For the record, I wouldn’t say that either. I’d say the body, or the brain, is reducible to the mind–but I still maintain they are inseparable.

You think I haven’t explored to the depths? You think I haven’t thought of everything that can be thought of?

How many of you have the courage to say what needs to be said, how have the courage to put down the dick of science and the cup of mainstream popular tea-logic and the balls to do so and say what needs to be said. I’m not some bible thumper, I have played and toyed with atheism and went to its depths. I have thought about the great sea of nothingness and the cosmos and the universe more than many men. How many of you, day end and day out, thought abut the art of nothingness and the idea of the void? I have thought in many ways and pushed many boundaries and in fact many things have changed because of thoughts like mine.

How many of you, would ridicule, scoff and mock the idea of spirits, anything that doesn’t conform to your self-inflicted limited way of empirical reason, just to feel a girlish satiation and to pat your self on the shoulder as you drink your metaphorical tea? How many of you, really ponder reality and spirituality to the very depths, pushing beyond even the envelopes of the philosophers before you, fearing not uncharted ideas and philosophies? How many of you really self-examine, and can objectively scrutinize and criticize their own philosophy and how many, would abandon their own philosophies at a moments notice, without experiencing any pangs of regret?

How many of you argue just to argue, and not arguing to explore new ideas, but just enforce set ways of thinking?
Think about how you are still here, in this body, in the flesh, and think about the ideas of the multiverse, is it not plausible and possible that there are, alternate outcomes, alternate dimensions, in where, you are gravely injured? And is it not possible that we, are still here, because our timeless consciousness automatically enters the dimension in which we maintain our existence? And when one piles up years upon years of life experience, one can feel deep in their bones, echoes and glimmers of what could have been, one can empathize and understand experiences which did not quite happen, yet, are felt deep in your bones.

Does providing a long and detailed explanation of the mechanical machinations of life, much of which is unproven, actually explain consciousness? It no more explains consciousness that would be explaining the functions of an IBM computer.

As far as OBE’s go, science and society, is unprofessional and needs to get serious about it. Nurses need to do proper, scientific, OBE testing, using playing card technique, in all hospitals

If Richard Dawkins, Steven Hawkins, Neil De Grasse Tyson, and Daniel Dennett were all in a room with me, they would all kneel before me, inherently sensing my superiority, due to my pheromones, as well as their psychic realization in awe of my dominance, and recognition of my greatness

This is not a joke

I have outdebated stronger men, more creative men than they, I have boosted my mental agility with the talk of the best of the best, the Internet is not for the passive or the faint

I believe they are inseparable as well. I made the mistake of confusing “inseparable” from “reducible”.

We must conclude they are inseparable until someone shows that they can be separated. So far I’ve seen no such evidence or reasoned explanation that could account for the idea that they can be separated. That doesn’t mean they can’t be, just that as philosophers there is no reason to conclude that they can be.

I can explain consciousness and mind in clear philosophical terms that anyone could follow, anyone who honestly wants to think about it that is. I’ve talked to many people over the years who believe that consciousness or mind can be separated from the body, but not a single one of them has been able to explain how that can happen, or provide any evidence for it. Basically it comes down to a lot of wishful thinking and some confusions about strange experiences at the limits of our subjectivity, such as hallucinations for example.

Someone gets high or has near death experience and has a kind of subjectivity distortion, hallucination, and then claims “I had an out of body experience!” Really? Or did you just basically have a really weird dream as the brain chemistry in your head was all out of whack for a while?

I’m interested in why people default to believing in things for which there is no reason or evidence. If I dream of flying I don’t wake up and say “I can fly!”, but I bet 10,000 years ago people did just that.

Wyld wrote:

There is no proof of them being inseparable; there is only evidence of them being correlated.

Just because they are correlated, and because we have only experienced them as correlated, does not mean that they are definitely inseparable.
It just means that you have never experienced them as inseparable, that’s it.

A more rational conclusion would be that you don’t know if they are inseparable, but that they are definitely correlated in some way.

And correlation doesn’t, necessarily, mean irreducibility, in either direction ( idealism << >> materialism).

Like I said, all this means is that they are correlated. Correlation does not equal emergence necessarily.

Computers and wifi are correlated, does this necessarily mean that the wifi emerges from the physical components of the computer?
When you punch a hole in your computer screen, the internet may lag and glitch. Again, does this mean that the wifi emerges from the computer?

No

Gravity and mass are correlated. Does mass emerge from gravity? Does gravity emerge from mass?

Nobody knows

We just know that mass and gravity are correlated

So too with consciousness and the brain. We just know that they are correlated in some way.

There is evidence of OBE’s, there are entire books describing spiritual OBE experiences verified by doctors.

But you don’t want to hear it, you want to accuse everyone of being in a giant conspiracy of making books that aren’t real, because “muh richard dawkins”. Secretly I think you worship dawkins because he looks the same as emma watson.

Look, im on the same page as you are, I want OBE’s to be done scientifically. But richard dawkins needs to stop dickin’ around with his infomercials a tell nurse bimbos in hospitals to stop dicking around setup scientific observation of OBE’s using the playing card experiment

But we know you ain’t gonna do it, noones gonna do it because you are all paid opposition, don’t reall care about science, don’t really care about setting up a proper obe experiment in hospitals, just like to dick around and say that spirituality is fake and false and that somehow this is the “default” philosophical position

And you better set up a card with BIG FONT. You all are like a bunch of sluggish bimbos, lethargic and have to be poke and prodded and convinced to help REAL SCIENTISTS to an experiment, with all you naysaying saying how REAL SCIENCE EXPERIMENTS are a waste of time

Its like, the dead dont see too well, use a big font, you should know this on your own, but since you are giving lip and attitude, Im supposed to just be quiet while you subtly botch the experiment on other ways because I should be thankful that the bimbo is finally complying (even though they STILL wont setup the experiment in the proper manner just so when it fails we can waste more controversy and time on how they fucked it up!

That’s the fate of the science industry! Ran by stupid assholes and bimbos who have to be poked and prodded do something, then when they do it they can’t even do it exactly right, then they make even more bogus conclusions based on the fact the experiment was botched due to their idiocy, then its even harder to convince them to REDO the experiment right, because they feel you are wasting their time by asking