Mental Health as Honesty
Nietzsche’s contributions to the health sciences of psychology can be reduced to that: honesty is equivalent to health. This has some interesting consequences.
Think now of the shadow people of your city. Those who are disgruntled and smell bad even in spirit. What common thread can we find in them? Is it not the righteousnesses of a priest?
Always, we see high opinions of everything, which instantly anger us and make them smell even worse. But they feed off of it, and somehow their delusions become more real with it.
Another thing: those opinions smell bad, and anger us, because they are lies. That is to say, they are knowing misrepresentations of life as we have perceived it before.
We must never forget, though, that rot and fermentation can often make sweet intoxication, and we are right to love this intoxication. We leave having had a high, and the wrech is left, at least, with the feeling of having cheered life.
Unsettling… He’ll soon get over it. But perhaps his cruelty has been lightened.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-01-2013, 08:31 AM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2013 08:47 AM by pezer.) Post: #2
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health as Honesty
More on why honesty is equivalent to health:
What does health mean? If you ask a Freudian, they will say it is the ability to go through your day effectively. We will go with this, of primitive masters of the true psychology.
To go about your day, there needs to be a you, a day, and shit to get to in it. These worlds need to coordinate with updated, fluctual information.
How can communication occur between these?
In the mind, one has a plan for them. This plan will eaither be feasable or not, and either correspond to the conditions one will meet or not. It all depends on the mind’s ability to accurately predict what the day will be, what the task will require and what one has to work with from the outset. The plan, the strategy, must be good. But much before that, the plan has to be the product of an honest assesment of what’s waiting for you out there.
Otherwise, you might just get the timing wrong when you walk into the subway train, menial things like that are suddenly dangerous tasks…
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-03-2013, 09:59 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 10:03 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #3
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: Mental Health as Honesty
Yes, I like this.
We like to forget the implicit dangers in everything we do, and in general man does little to minimize his exposure to these dangers. “Go through your day effectively”, this assumes A LOT. For one thing, we do not always need “the plan” but rather the ability to improvise/adapt and to change plans. This is more important, I think: a “meta-plan”, or what is often called a moral/ethic.
Social forms give this meta-planning. Religion, politics, interpersonal relationships, occupation, consumption and continual re-stimulation of the instinctual organism. This is meta-planning, and “the plan/s” as dictates our more specific day-to-day lives are like little off-shoots of the meta-plan. But I would also refer to Kaczynski’s concept of power process, such a simple and obvious idea but which is easily overlooked. Taking some of itself from Nietzsche, of course, the idea is that we need to proceed through stages of power-seeking, working-suffering, and power-getting. If the amount of power we achieve in the end is too little, or the work-suffering is either too easy or too difficult, then this process will be weak and inadequate. But if we hit the right balance of valuation and action-struggle, not too much but not too little, we are rewarded with “meaning”, what you call here “health”.
Health has social and personal dimensions, dimensions in time and space, dimensional along a continuum of the Real. The objet petit a drives our plans, and regardless of that object itself we are rewarded with health, meaning and power so long as our effectiveness, as you called it, is achieved relative to it. This is radical self-valuing manipulation. And it is, I think, the unconscious nature of this manipulation that is what really offends us when we hear the shadow people speaking of their virtues. (And the only conscious form of meta-planning that I know of is philosophy, and perhaps also certain occult systems with which I am not very familiar).
Personally I have a hard time breathing in the intoxicating fumes from the “shadow people” and their constant and noisy decaying. Perhaps it is an acquired taste, but…
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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04-03-2013, 10:31 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 10:32 PM by pezer.) Post: #4
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health as Honesty
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not worth seeking out. But if you are sucked into a situation with a person like that, or tricked to drink his self-aggrandizing fantasies, if you are already in the situation then the effort-reward balance works out better for enjoying it. Like when you counter-attack in chess from the very tip of your opponent’s attack, once you are seemingly overwhelmed. A practical application of Sun Tzu’s idea that it is better to leave your enemy space to escape, if you will, except the war you are having is who can enjoy themselves most; and everybody wins a war like that.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
Shifty
There are two kinds of shiftyness, and only one is real.
There exists the shiftyness of the Buhddist, which moves itself and is like a show.
Then there is the other one.
Then there is the shiftyness of magicians who have trained for it. This one is artificial.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-04-2013, 09:13 AM Unread post Post: #2
Q Offline
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RE: Shifty
I have been told I have ‘shifty eyes.’ I totally do.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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04-04-2013, 10:06 AM Unread post Post: #3
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RE: Shifty
(04-04-2013 09:13 AM)Q Wrote:
I have been told I have ‘shifty eyes.’ I totally do.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
“Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try!”
-Dr. Seuss
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04-04-2013, 10:08 AM Unread post Post: #4
Q Offline
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RE: Shifty
How can I post a pic of my eyes being shifty? Maybe I can make a video.
The Philosopher’s Demolition Derby and Path
Two painful things are that of philosophers. The first, the one one encounters first, is the destruction.
A Truth seeker, in this world of twisted reality, must first demolish all inherited understandings. He kills himself many times over. The philosopher bears it: he can see a goal. The self-destroyer bears it too, but differently.
I have broken a pact and a promise to come back and say this: That philosophy is the most dangerous thing only in the sense of the deepest, and being most relevant while mostly out of one’s hand. The second painful thing, after destruction of inherited things, is the making of old mistakes anew.
This one is actually quite exciting. One can feel one’s self relate both to ancesters high in the past and all the mistakes that came from their blundering attempts to make sense of it. One makes the mistakes of an idiot child!
And one begins to learn anew what mean things like responsibility, fear, cockyness and desire for life.
Philosophers, stop your trembling. Grit your teeth, look outside, and begin the work that is ahead of us.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-03-2013, 09:17 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 09:18 PM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #2
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RE: The Philosopher’s Demolition Derby and Path
This is good advice to those who must walk this highest and most insane path. If not for the embrace of destruction and mistakes, all we can look forward to inheriting is death, a loop, an ending that is the same as where we began. We must avoid such dreadul “beautiful symmetries” of perfection and sense-making, and rather aim at crushing, crumbling those sense-making arches of being that mark our path, the path that marks us, the path that denies us our mark, our path-making.
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04-03-2013, 10:08 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 10:09 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #3
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RE: The Philosopher’s Demolition Derby and Path
…And where the philosopher also seeks to attain happiness, here we may witness the most widespread and precise destructions (of truth). Inherited understanding and its demolition become as kindling for the flame of a more true creation, a more true annihilation of truths (toward the end of…) …
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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04-03-2013, 10:48 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 10:49 PM by pezer.) Post: #4
pezer Offline
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RE: The Philosopher’s Demolition Derby and Path
No, the philosopher must not chase after his own fruit. He does not seek happiness, he envisions it. Destruction is breathing. Envisioning is needing to breathe.
One of my main points is that philosophy is largely passive, due its immense weight.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-04-2013, 01:17 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 01:20 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #5
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RE: The Philosopher’s Demolition Derby and Path
Happiness is a concept no serious philosopher would admit being interested in or taking seriously, much less pursuing actively for themselves. This means only that there is something about this philosopher’s type which makes the notion of happiness anathema. We would do well to inquire further here and not merely concede the limitation.
Philosophy is cultivating a strength for things, not least of all for truth. But not only for truth. Philosophy is heavy, the philosopher need not be. We may heed Nietzsche’s warnings in Zarathustra, if we are wise enough to hear them, if we are humble and ambitious enough to get out of our own way.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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04-04-2013, 11:42 PM Post: #6
Fixed Cross Offline
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RE: The Philosopher’s Demolition Derby and Path
.
…[Image: X9gt9Wr.gif]
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
[img]Bill%20Wiltrack%20Offline%20Probationer%20Posts:%2086%20Joined:%20Feb%202013%20Reputation:%201%20RE:%20The%20Philosopher's%20Demolition%20Derby%20and%20Path%20.%20...........................................................[Image:%20X9gt9Wr.gif]%20When%20once%20you%20have%20tasted%20flight,%20you%20will%20forever%20walk%20the%20Earth%20with%20your%20eyes%20turned%20skyward,%20for%20there%20you%20have%20been,%20and%20there%20you%20will%20always%20long%20to%20return.%20~~~%20Leonardo%20Da%20Vinci%20~~~%20.%20Send%20this%20user%20an%20email%20Send%20this%20user%20a%20private%20message%20Find%20all%20posts%20by%20this%20user%20Give%20Reputation%20to%20this%20user%20Report%20this%20post%20to%20a%20moderator%2004-05-2013,%2010:14%20AM%20Post:%20#8%20Q%20Offline%205151%20Posts:%20469%20Joined:%20Jun%202012%20Reputation:%205%20RE:%20The%20Philosopher's%20Demolition%20Derby%20and%20Path%20Cool%20gif%20mang.%20How%20bout%20getting%20off%20all%20these%20antibiotics?%20How%20bout%20stopping%20eating%20when%20I'm%20full%20up?%20Send%20this%20user%20an%20email%20Send%20this%20user%20a%20private%20message%20Find%20all%20posts%20by%20this%20user%20Give%20Reputation%20to%20this%20user%20Report%20this%20post%20to%20a%20moderator%2004-05-2013,%2012:36%20PM%20Post:%20#9%20ChainOfBeing%20Offline%20Probationer%20Posts:%20178%20Joined:%20Dec%202012%20Reputation:%204%20RE:%20The%20Philosopher's%20Demolition%20Derby%20and%20Path%20Accepting%20happiness%20will%20lead%20to%20your%20highest%20truth.%20Abandon%20all%20hope,%20ye%20who%20enter%20here.%20Send%20this%20user%20a%20private%20message%20Find%20all%20posts%20by%20this%20user%20Give%20Reputation%20to%20this%20user%20Report%20this%20post%20to%20a%20moderator%2004-05-2013,%2001:45%20PM%20Post:%20#10%20pezer%20Offline%20Pothead%20Saruman%20Posts:%20800%20Joined:%20Jan%202013%20Reputation:%208%20RE:%20The%20Philosopher's%20Demolition%20Derby%20and%20Path%20Yes,%20but%20it%20blocks%20future.%20The%20philosopher,as%20you%20will%20recall,%20still%20needs%20a%20little%20chaos%20in%20his%20heart%20if%20he%20is%20to%20give%20birth%20to%20a%20dancing%20star.[/img]
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04-05-2013, 10:14 AM Post: #8
Q Offline
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RE: The Philosopher's Demolition Derby and Path
Cool gif mang.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I'm full up?
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04-05-2013, 12:36 PM Post: #9
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: The Philosopher's Demolition Derby and Path
Accepting happiness will lead to your highest truth.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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04-05-2013, 01:45 PM Post: #10
pezer Offline
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RE: The Philosopher's Demolition Derby and Path
Yes, but it blocks future. The philosopher,as you will recall, still needs a little chaos in his heart if he is to give birth to a dancing star.
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RE: The Philosopher's Demolition Derby and Path
The world is largely passive due to its immense weight. Hence, science, which reflects this weight in immutable law. Philosophy is the task of giving wings to that which is heavy.
The serpent and the eagle, if you recall, belong together, flanking the philosopher who is looking at the sun.
RE: The Philosopher's Demolition Derby and Path
While the expert swordsman will wield an expert blade, and go about choosing and caring for it with equally rare skill, the true master is not choosy, for he can pick up and wield anything to any end he desires.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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04-06-20
For the philosopher, happiness is the greatest chaos of all.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
The Age of Us
I am finally able to evolve into my Internet self. Indeed, this place is like a Journal, a private repository of often unpolished thought.
However, this is the year fucking 2013 after the Death of Iesus (hellelujah), and our notebooks talk back.
Instead of a solitary fat-ass or a schizophrenic way, the voices in my head tearing me down and doubting me... Are not mine at all!
My self-training is the training of a community now, individuality has been transfigured into that disgusting, smelly realm of shared emotions in a real way, mocking Truth by instating Reality as an imitation of an Imitation of something not-real-enough-for-perception, and the best of us are working with this chemical reaction to achieve what before took at least ten more levels of madness to achieve.
Fixed Cross, Q, Friends, let's do Art.
We'll be the new Kierkegaard. Monstrous, disgusting, and potentially more beautiful that we can imagine imagining.
I am Nothing
A philosopher is nothing... and happy to be so!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHh!!!!! WWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOORRRLDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[myspace.com/t3hshredboiz](http://www.myspace.com/t3hshredboiz)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:33 PM Post: #2
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[flickr.com/photos/karlfontaine/page2/](http://www.flickr.com/photos/karlfontaine/page2/)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:34 PM Post: #3
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[xkcd.com/](http://xkcd.com/)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:35 PM Post: #4
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[btdigg.org/search?info_hash=e71e5...20mountain](http://btdigg.org/search?info_hash=e71e5...20mountain)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:35 PM Post: #5
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:36 PM Post: #6
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[bitcoin.org/en/](http://bitcoin.org/en/)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:37 PM Post: #7
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/1B.html](http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/1B.html)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:38 PM Post: #8
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[xkcd.com/1133/](http://xkcd.com/1133/)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:40 PM Post: #9
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.n...058729.pdf](http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.n...058729.pdf)
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-08-2013, 08:40 PM Post: #10
pezer Offline
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RE: I am Nothing
[cplusplus.com/](http://www.cplusplus.com/)
Balance
Can somebody tell me what the obsession is with balance and keeping things as they are?
Explain it to me. It seems like a malicious death wish to me, not because I hate God, I don't hate the dead, but because you exit the system and then, instead of using your own powers and stuff... You look to re-define old terms!
This is how it seems to me. If I am wrong, show me how without dancing around me.
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-06-2013, 10:18 AM Post: #2
W.C. Away
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RE: Balance
'Suddenly I was tired of Lotterman; he was a phony and he didn't even know it. He was forever yapping about freedom of the press and keeping the paper going, but if he'd had a million dollars and all the freedom in the world he'd still put out a worthless newspaper because he wasn't smart enough to put out a good one. He was just another noisy little punk in the great legion of punks who marched between the banners of bigger and better men. Freedom, Truth, Honour — you could rattle off a hundred such words and behind every one of them would gather a thousand punks, pompous little farts, waving the banner with one hand and reaching under the table with the other.'
I hope this helps. I felt it might.
— W.C.
'Through the dark decades of your pain, this will seem like a memory of Heaven.'
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04-06-2013, 10:21 AM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2013 10:23 AM by pezer.) Post: #3
pezer Offline
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RE: Balance
It helps explain why punks are called punks by such as wrote that quote. Not much more.
I have little respect for men who use only one hand.
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-06-2013, 10:37 AM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2013 10:37 AM by W.C..) Post: #4
W.C. Away
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RE: Balance
In my mind, it succinctly connected that it is these punks that hold the obsession with balance and keeping things as they are. They use the words of the great changers, but they themselves change nothing, do nothing of consequence. They utilise external stimuli in order to solidify their being 'in the in crowd,' just like everyone else, because they're not quite smart enough to utilise it for change, life and progress just yet.
— W.C.
'Through the dark decades of your pain, this will seem like a memory of Heaven.'
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04-06-2013, 05:31 PM Post: #5
pezer Offline
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RE: Balance
From the perspective of a money making member of society, with a place and position, that is the normal thought.
Punks make it their duty to yell the truth at you anyway.
"There is only X in this world."
"What?!?! But look at all the Y, Z, C, H, R, E, etc.!!!!"
"Um.... We don't talk about those in polite society. It makes us aware of the bullshit of our existence. You punk."
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-06-2013, 06:39 PM Post: #6
Q Offline
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RE: Balance
(04-06-2013 09:34 AM)pezer Wrote:
Can somebody tell me what the obsession is with balance and keeping things as they are?
Explain it to me. It seems like a malicious death wish to me, not because I hate God, I don't hate the dead, but because you exit the system and then, instead of using your own powers and stuff... You look to re-define old terms!
This is how it seems to me. If I am wrong, show me how without dancing around me.
Balance and keeping things as they are two completely different things.
Water will eventually find a balance, but it's always in motion. Fluid. It never really stays as it was.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I'm full up?
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04-06-2013, 07:22 PM Post: #7
pezer Offline
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RE: Balance
I don't quite like that, being more of a fire-man myself, but at least I can understand and respect it.
I did choose the "and" there carefully.
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-06-2013, 07:32 PM Post: #8
Q Offline
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RE: Balance
(04-06-2013 07:22 PM)pezer Wrote:
I did choose the "and" there carefully.
I considered that.
But what connects those two things?
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I'm full up?
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04-06-2013, 09:22 PM Post: #9
BigTom Offline
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RE: Balance
I suppose the thing that connects the two is that balance is the illusion of a perpetual state of stillness.
But you're right, as Derrida said, 'there is no balance'. Everything falls over eventually. Particularly if you apply enough fire or water to it.
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04-07-2013, 03:33 AM Post: #10
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: Balance
"No growth without assistance. No action without reaction. No desire without restraint. Now give yourself up and find yourself again."
RE: Balance
(04-06-2013 09:22 PM)BigTom Wrote:
I suppose the thing that connects the two is that balance is the illusion of a perpetual state of stillness.
It certainly can be, though really balance is maintained by a lot of motion, at least for creatures moving through space/life. And if things are out of balance, balancing may require not simply movement, but even violence or what seems like it.
But it is complicated. Numbness/lack of awareness/distraction and balance seem to be conflated a lot. People have their little worlds and set ideas and what 'upsets the balance' might actually improve things, but that momentary tilting feeling, like you are about to fall off the bike, is too much and the messenger gets a smack in the face. 'Don't make me feel that!" Though usually this gets translated into 'You are crazy' 'You are out of balance'.
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04-08-2013, 07:57 AM Post: #12
pezer Offline
Pothead Saruman
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RE: Balance
It all depends on what's at stake. One can drop a nuclear bomb on LA and destroy much of humanity.
One can drop a nuclear bomb under a specially designed spaceship in a deserted field and send humans to outer space.
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
BigTom wrote:
Heathen wrote:
BigTom wrote:
I suppose the thing that connects the two is that balance is the illusion of a perpetual state of stillness.
It certainly can be, though really balance is maintained by a lot of motion, at least for creatures moving through space/life. And if things are out of balance, balancing may require not simply movement, but even violence or what seems like it.
Exactly. Even this dude:
[video=youtube][/video]
Was hurtling round the sun at many thousands of miles an hour. On a piece of rock that itself was spinning as thousands of miles an hour.
Quote :
But it is complicated. Numbness/lack of awareness/distraction and balance seem to be conflated a lot. People have their little worlds and set ideas and what 'upsets the balance' might actually improve things, but that momentary tilting feeling, like you are about to fall off the bike, is too much and the messenger gets a smack in the face. 'Don't make me feel that!" Though usually this gets translated into 'You are crazy' 'You are out of balance'.
The reduction of mental illness to mere chemical imbalances in the brain (as though the brain isn't in a constant state of chemical reaction) is one of the most dangerous myths around. Likewise the myth that we humans are somehow unbalancing nature, when in reality we're part of nature.
But what you're talking about is different, I think, it is the ease with which people are upset, 'ease' relative to their desire to not be upset. Some people thrive on emotional instability and though I'm the opposite sort of person I say good luck to them. But when people want what I have (near-perpetual peace of mind) but don't know how to get it, that is a problem. Maybe I should start running evening classes for the emotionally conflicted on learning how to not worry about anything. It'd basically be lessons in how to smoke a lot of dope, obviously. Though when I quit dope completely for several months I didn't find it at all stressful.
RE: Balance
I need dooope. We should start a dope fund.
Goddamn unreliable dealers.
Btw Tom, I shamelessly blame all conflict on lack of it.
Science is found in the question "how do you know?"
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04-09-2013, 05:14 AM Post: #15
BigTom Offline
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RE: Balance
To be fair I do think that dope is a better long-term investment than bitcoin. I mean, you can't smoke bitcoins (yet).
This is the problem with drug dealers - they have all the drugs they could ever want, which makes them unreliable. The day I meet a sober, reliable drug dealer... is the day I meet an undercover cop.
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04-09-2013, 07:28 AM Post: #16
Q Offline
5151
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RE: Balance
That's too bad. Here it's a fairly serious (for what it is) business. People smoke weed on the job and they get fired or 'management' recognizes that they could make more money and instills some sort of code to deter them from smoking on the job. Plus it makes things so much more heat with the cops. If you're not high, you're just someone in a car. No one has anything smelly or anything like that.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I'm full up?
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04-09-2013, 09:24 AM Post: #17
Heathen Offline
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RE: Balance
(04-09-2013 03:10 AM)BigTom Wrote:
Heathen wrote:
BigTom wrote:
The reduction of mental illness to mere chemical imbalances in the brain (as though the brain isn't in a constant state of chemical reaction) is one of the most dangerous myths around.
I strongly agree. We've isolated brains, so they can be pathologized, and then make money off them. Horrible.
Quote:
But what you're talking about is different, I think, it is the ease with which people are upset, 'ease' relative to their desire to not be upset. Some people thrive on emotional instability and though I'm the opposite sort of person I say good luck to them. But when people want what I have (near-perpetual peace of mind) but don't know how to get it, that is a problem. Maybe I should start running evening classes for the emotionally conflicted on learning how to not worry about anything. It'd basically be lessons in how to smoke a lot of dope, obviously. Though when I quit dope completely for several months I didn't find it at all stressful.
I'm not sure how serious this is, in total or in part. I was thinking, for example, of things like someone saying, hey, I think the war in Iraq is really about oil. This is upsetting. What if it were true? The reaction can be to want to maintain what at least feels like balance - or is it numbness, distraction - and attack the person saying it. Generally people do not say, hey that upsets my balance (numbness, fantasy), they generally launch into a 'rational argument' or scream about patriotism, in this instance also. But I think much of the reaction is actually about being upset that someone is upsetting their state of mind.
If you got upset, say, at blacks having police dogs turned on them or firehoses, for wanting to vote or have non-segregated eating, this was often reacted to as being out of balance. IOW balance is seen as even keel, even keel is seen as good, not even keel is seen as bad. Which really limits the options of being human.