RE: Advertising
Or maybe if I lay out for you my fears and hopes here we can move forward.
My fear is that your project might be a sexy way to avoid the real work at hand, which is to break down the barriers of stupidity and advance human along its present potential.
My hopes are that advertising can be transformed in the way you are telling us it can be, or that, made smaller, it can act as another force in the field instead of the tyrannical mind-nanny it is today.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-29-2013, 11:08 AM Post: #152
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RE: Advertising
Dude we’re on page 15. I’ve stated the detail as much as I can. I am not holding out on you. It’s just that you guys keep asking for an example of an advertisement, but you refuse to accept my example, which is a movie or a website. Which one doesn’t matter. At all. I get the feeling you are convinced this will be solved by some example. It won’t, so I’m unsure why you guy keep asking for one.
It may be that I cannot explain this because I have not fleshed it out myself enough.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-29-2013, 11:54 AM Post: #153
pezer Offline
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RE: Advertising
I think that’s the case. I took your examples, they just seem to me like examples of exactly what I don’t want, what doesn’t seem to be what you are proposing.
Do flesh it out, don’t let yourself be dragged into some other person’s agenda.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-29-2013, 12:13 PM (This post was last modified: 05-29-2013 12:13 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #154
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RE: Advertising
Sure Q, if you define advertising as “to show someone something” then yeah, it’s all advertising.
But then again, in so doing all you have accomplished is playing around with mere semantics. I have been trying to go deeper, unfortunately you seem not to want to come along.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-29-2013, 03:21 PM Post: #155
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RE: Advertising
Dude, we’d get along a lot better if you just assume we’re all of around the same intelligence, we’re all willing, and we’re all more or less as well read.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-29-2013, 03:21 PM Post: #156
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RE: Advertising
(05-29-2013 11:54 AM)pezer Wrote:
I think that’s the case. I took your examples, they just seem to me like examples of exactly what I don’t want, what doesn’t seem to be what you are proposing.
Do flesh it out, don’t let yourself be dragged into some other person’s agenda.
You don’t want a website?
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-29-2013, 03:46 PM Post: #157
pezer Offline
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RE: Advertising
OK, talk to us about the Marx connection again. If anything, it seems to me that advertising just follows the cycle of monopoly of ideas. Is that what you want to work for?
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-29-2013, 05:02 PM Post: #158
pezer Offline
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RE: Advertising
I think you put too much stock in our shared knowledge. ChainOfBeing and I recognize intelligence by how that shit is translated, with each philosopher or non-philosopher’s art, into written word. If we seem like we are just trying to sound smart, it is because that is the only way we recognize smart.
We want you to tell us your plan, no refer us to the source theory that supports it.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-30-2013, 06:04 AM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2013 06:06 AM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #159
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RE: Advertising
(05-29-2013 03:21 PM)Q Wrote:
Dude, we’d get along a lot better if you just assume we’re all of around the same intelligence, we’re all willing, and we’re all more or less as well read.
On what basis would I justifiably assume any such thing?
You would rather get along than uncover truth?
Know that you ascribe pathological motives to my writings here which do not exist. I am concerned with truth and not with your, or my own, feelings. Do me the honor of being likewise motivated, if you are able. And maybe consider starting by answering those 7 questions that I put to you. Why have you not answered them yet?
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-30-2013, 06:06 AM Post: #160
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RE: Advertising
I will explain it.
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RE: Advertising
Basically, Marx says that all art, no matter what you think, is reduced down to socio-economic forces.
There is no “pure” art for Marx.
I think you can certainly attack this view, but others have and they haven’t faired all that well. I have written numerous times about how Virgina Woolf somewhat does disprove Marx indirectly, but thus far no one has touched on her reasoning.
You all just keep saying, “Yeah, pure art is possible.”
Is it? Unless you are alone in a cave?
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-30-2013, 08:08 AM Post: #162
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RE: Advertising
Whereas I wonder why Q has not answered Chains questions, I disagree with the idea that advertising is always selling something. That’s too narrow. I’m sure you all know the phrase “there’s no such thing as bad publicity”. Advertising is publicity, which means: making it known that some/thing/one exists.
And if you think about this deeper, practically - how else are you ever going to communicate about something that is of value to you, without advertising it? It’s usually impossible. You’re most of the time going to show, convey just a detail, a segment, a part of whatever it is you’re trying to draw attention to.
Selectivity is not primarily due to betrayal, deceit. It’s primarily due to lack of time and space, lack of attention-span, lack of brainpower, lack of opportunity to tell the whole truth. A good advertisement, in my eyes, is one that conveys an idea that in turn evokes the desire to find out the whole truth to which that idea pertains.
Q, you’re not one known to show the back of your tongue. Sometimes you’ll need to do just that to win people’s trust. So, sometimes advertising isn’t enough. Is it fair to say that right now what you’re doing is advertising advertising?
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05-30-2013, 08:13 AM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2013 08:15 AM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #163
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RE: Advertising
From what I read, they’re not saying that pure art (whatever that is) is possible, they’re rather not agreeing that advertising is art at all. The point is not that it’s impure art, but that it departs from a totally different basis.
But then we do get into a shady area. Art generally works to draw the attention to something - most generally and rudimentarily, to the mindset of the artist - and in case of much commercial art, to certain values, a certain lifestyle, certain impulses…
Concerning most of the questions philosophy can ask I have come to a pretty satisfying answer. But on “what is art?” I feel in my bones that I can not give a clear cut definition. Perhaps it is the question that needs to be addressed here, boring, age old and impossible as it may be.
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05-30-2013, 10:38 AM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2013 10:39 AM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #164
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RE: Advertising
Art is a process of maintaining fidelity to something, to truth, to an appeal of openness and to the cathartic creative act. Art produces a change in the artist and in the viewer of the art, art fundamentally changes the way that we see, think, believe, feel, value. Real art will fucking change your life.
Art is profound, whereas advertising takes the shortest route and is bent upon efficiency. Efficiency of manipulating the viewer to some end. Advertising is impossible without this desire to influence, whereas art can and often is done with no such desire to influence. Where art achieves influence it is often a secondary thing and perhaps not even intended by the artist.
Where advertising incorporates a more artistic approach it only becomes more like art and less like advertising. The middle-ground between art and advertising, where these overlap, are only the exceptions that most prove the rule, that most show the real differences between the two.
Art may become political, it may emerge from a political truth, but its aim is never only to influence the politics of something. Art is always done at least in part for its own sake, because of the cathartic need, the need for freedom, the creative spirit, and in obedience to some aesthetic or intellectual standard even if only implicitly. Advertising, to the contrary, must have this political intention, it cannot merely emerge from a political truth but must aim toward the political—influence is the only reason that any advertising is ever created. Not so with art.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-30-2013, 10:42 AM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2013 10:44 AM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #165
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RE: Advertising
In this way, we can see advertising as a more recent and distorted offspring of art. Advertising has taken art and removed from it the impulse to truth, the need for freedom, the cathartic effect, and the need to open up and maintain a fidelity to the void. Advertising therefore is the corruption of art toward ends which art itself may end up serving, but in its own way, and only as a secondary effect to its primary motive-cause. Advertising removes the core of art and uses the image, the form of it to ends anathema to art itself; art does not need to prescribe its own end, its own effect, rather art deliberately must abstain from doing so if it is to remain authentic, if it is to “groove in an aesthetic” and act as a disclosure of that which is concealed.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-30-2013, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2013 01:14 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #166
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RE: Advertising
In removing the core of art while retaining its form and something of its impulse, advertising has both liberated self-valuing from any historical boundary, as well as given birth to the greatest monster ever known to mankind.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-30-2013, 03:04 PM Post: #167
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RE: Advertising
Quote:
Advertising has taken art and removed from it the impulse to truth, the need for freedom, the cathartic effect, and the need to open up and maintain a fidelity to the void.
Again, we’re not in the Bernays era anymore. Not completely, at least.
I put it to you this way: do you think advertising has changed since the internet has hit?
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-30-2013, 04:09 PM Post: #168
pezer Offline
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RE: Advertising
(05-30-2013 03:04 PM)Q Wrote:
Again, we’re not in the Bernays era anymore. Not completely, at least.
In what way?
Btw, yes, I feel it has gotten more personal, like in that creepy ass show we all watched that one time with the guy living in the world sorrounded by screens. You know, the sequel to the pig fucking politician.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-31-2013, 10:22 AM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 10:22 AM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #169
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RE: Advertising
To be completely honest Q, I see no reason to continue engaging you further here. It isn’t just that you seem unable or unwilling to acknowledge or engage my points (or to answer the questions which I carefully constructed with the aim of furthering this discussion and getting to know your position better), but that you truly seem motivated by something other than honest disclosure of truth. I would say you have an agenda to push, but then again I don’t know you that well really. You may just be ignorant of what you are doing.
This is not a game to me, I am not here to play chess. This is serious, this fucking matters.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-31-2013, 10:53 AM Post: #170
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RE: Advertising
You think I am some agent provacateur or something? Lol you must be completely paranoid.
Nice. I like it.
As for this discussion, sure we can end it. I already said that a couple posts ago. I would suggest you guys read Marx. That is pretty key here and it doesn’t sound like that part is clicking.
In the meantime I will refactor this argument
Also if I am making a reference you do not get, just tell me. Instead of saying I’m not answering questions when the answers (or lack thereof) depend on the references.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-31-2013, 10:59 AM Post: #172
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RE: Advertising
You guys should put yourself in my position.
All I am seeing is “Art is like…moving people’s emotions, and stuff.”
I’m plenty serious but it kinda sounds like you’re giving me your personal definition for why art is. Let’s skip that and just use actual philosophical stances.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-31-2013, 11:01 AM Post: #173
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RE: Advertising
If you want to go with some Aristotlean virtue thing, then why cannot I bring up Marx, who came after and addressed all that?
Why can’t we move from Bernays era into a new one? Why are we being held back by you guys’ personal views that advertising in the 20’s is the same as now. It’s fucking not.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-31-2013, 12:31 PM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 12:31 PM by pezer.) Post: #174
pezer Offline
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RE: Advertising
¡You have yet to fucking make a point at all to explain that!
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-31-2013, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 12:34 PM by pezer.) Post: #175
pezer Offline
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RE: Advertising
I am trying here man, I honestly am. I could not be more curious as to what redeeming thing you see in advertising. I reallyreallyreallytreallyreally want to know. But your defensiveness is like every time we say something to try to understand, we get hit over the fucking head with a club. It hurts. We do it because we want to help you help us get it.
Please, stop beating us over the head with a club.
Explain your position. To go back to the 20’s in a different way: man up and explain your position.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-31-2013, 01:06 PM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 01:10 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #176
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RE: Advertising
Q, yeah, I get Marx, I’ve read Marx. So what? Marx didn’t even fucking write about art, as far as I have ever read or seen. It is not central to his ideas at all.
If modern advertising began with Bernays, then what the hell are you talking about with "There is no “pure” art for Marx. "? You got some quotes or something to back that up, or at least a clear and rational argument? How are you connecting any of this together?
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-31-2013, 01:10 PM Post: #177
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RE: Advertising
I don’t even care about Marx, honestly. If you want to create an actual argument using some of his ideas, that would be great, I would love to get into that. But you have not done that, not at all.
As Pezer said, you are highly defensive, you continue to just beat us over the head with, well nothing really.
Where is your substance? Why do you hide?
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-31-2013, 01:28 PM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 01:29 PM by Q.) Post: #178
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RE: Advertising
Look, I don’t know what to tell you. Marx isn’t all proletarians and revolutions. If you think he hasn’t written about art, you are wrong.
For like the twenty-seventh time, this is the argument:
Marx explains how there is no “pure” art in the sense that you are describing because you can never escape socio-political contexts that bind people.
Your definition of art:
Quote:
Art sells itself. Advertising sells X.
For Marx, this is non-sensical.
Quote:
Their superb knowledge of world art helped Marx and Engels to elaborate genuinely scientific aesthetic principles. The founders of scientific communism were thus not only able to answer the complex aesthetic questions of the previous age, but also to elaborate a fundamentally new system of aesthetic science. They did so only as a result of the great revolutionary upheaval they had brought about in philosophy by creating dialectical and historical materialism and laying down the foundations for the materialist conception of history. Though Marx and Engels have left no major writings on art, their views in this field, when collected together, form a harmonious whole which is a logical extension of their scientific and revolutionary Weltanschauung. They explained the nature of art and its paths of development, its tasks in society and social aims. Marxist aesthetics, like the whole teaching of Marx and Engels, are subordinated to the struggle for the communist reorganisation of society.
When developing their theory of aesthetics, Marx and Engels naturally based themselves on the achievements of their predecessors. But the main aesthetic problems — and above all the problem of the relationship between art and reality — were solved by them in a fundamentally new way, on the basis of materialist dialectics. Idealist aesthetics considered art as a reproduction of the ideal, standing over and* above actual reality. The origin of any art form, its development, flowering, and decay, all remained incomprehensible to the art theoreticians and historians of the pre-Marxian period, inasmuch as they studied these in isolation from man’s social existence.
Marx and Engels considered it absolutely impossible to understand art and literature proceeding only from their internal laws of development. In their opinion, the essence, origin, development, and social role of art could only be understood through analysis of the social system as a whole, within which the economic factor — the development, of productive forces in complex interaction with production relations — plays the decisive role. Thus art, as defined by Marx and Engels, is one of the forms of social consciousness and it therefore follows that the reasons for its changes should be sought in the social existence of men.
Marx and Engels revealed the social nature of art and its development in the course of history and showed that in a society with class antagonisms it was influenced by class ‘contradictions and by the politics and ideologies of particular classes.
In other words, if you are poor, you are selling the poor. If you are rich, you are selling the rich.
I don’t know what is so hard to get about this. It’s a super old argument. All art, commerce, communication, it’s all theoretically been linked. But now it’s happening in actuality. In the very system that we live in.
If you want me to prescribe to a view of art that was surpassed by a guy with a Santa beard 150 years ago, it’s not going to happen. You will have to do better than the basic dichotomy you are presenting here. Marx knocks that shit down.
Quote:
Art sells itself. Advertising sells X.
I mean just read it. Are you satisfied with that? I’m not.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-31-2013, 01:46 PM Post: #179
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RE: Advertising
Quote:
I am trying here man, I honestly am. I could not be more curious as to what redeeming thing you see in advertising.
But I don’t see any real redeeming part to it. I keep saying this. Go back and read the first couple posts. I say that I like to manipulate people (what artist doesn’t) but I do not say that I find advertising redeeming. I say that it needs a serious overhaul.
It’s like you guys have just made up your mind about advertising as completely beyond saving, and then when I ask you OK, what alternative is there? You go on about some anarchist thing, as if people won’t still need to buy and sell things.
If anything, I am the serious one here. I have thought about this carefully.
It comes to to two things:
1.) Is advertising going anywhere, even in some anarchist thing? No. It’s not.
2.) Given the above, there needs to be a change in the advertising industry for the better. Or it will continue to suck.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-31-2013, 02:01 PM Post: #180
pezer Offline
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RE: Advertising
That is a fine argument, but I have already answered it. This is the form my answer takes: My philosophical studies have led me to believe that, yes, advertising is beyond saving; yet I have changed my mind radically enough about enough things to promise my help to you anyways, let’s do this shit, let’s overhaul advertising.
About Marx, it took me a very long time, but I finally understood that his system has borders as well, there is possible human action outside his framework. Anarchist literature abounds. Art might not have a place there, this I know, and I am willing to make the sacrifice. In my mind, you are right that art is in the end part of the Marxist zeitgeist process, a way to channel both the impulses of the viewer and the artist that allows for “teh system” to sustain “itself.” A way to make an animal ccivilized in the capitalist flavour. An anarchist doesn’t necessarily believe in primitivism, but s/he believes in an overhaul of the sublimating devices that is based on human scientific though in lieu of dumb fucking luck.
In other words, no, I do not believe that selling-buying is necessary at all. All we need is for the cream of the intelligence crop to decide this is true and stop slaving over systems they sub-consciously, if not consciously, know to be below their intellectual capacities.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
Along these lines, here is a video series I made. It lasts about 56 mins total. [flash(0,0)[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ogmMdb4v9U[/youtube]/flash]
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-31-2013, 02:09 PM Post: #182
Q Offline
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RE: Advertising
Quote:
All we need is for the cream of the intelligence crop to decide this is true and stop slaving over systems they sub-consciously, if not consciously, know to be below their intellectual capacities.
What about everyone else? The people on this forum represent like 6% of society.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-31-2013, 02:12 PM Post: #183
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RE: Advertising
And how do you expect to make the global 6% do that?
This is why, for me, this always comes back to, ta da, material stuff.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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05-31-2013, 02:26 PM Post: #184
pezer Offline
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RE: Advertising
That 6% is the only one that really makes decisions on consciousness. Everybody else just follows. We are the 94%'s future.
Material does not = the current status quo. That’s just what the propaganda is designed to make us feel. By us, I mean the 6%.
People in charge don’t like change, that is why so many intellectuals have historically taken up arms against them. Yet, as I have said, arms are no longer necessary. Though those people in charge don’t see it, the potential our thought has is not dangerous to anybody.
I had a dog once, he was brought in by my mom from many years of living in an abusive family. Everytime I approached him with the intention to pet him and be nice to him at first was met with uncontrollable fear and pissing all over everywhere.
Did I decide to beat him, but in a better way because that’s the only thing he would accept? The only way I could get him to eat the food I served him?
No. Little by little, by being myself, I showed him there was no danger. Eventually, we became close friends.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-31-2013, 02:28 PM Post: #185
pezer Offline
Pothead Saruman
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RE: Advertising
The world is ours now, Q. We can do what we want with it. Your employers’ employers will all be dead 30 years from now.
What seeds will we plant?
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-31-2013, 02:54 PM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 02:59 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #186
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: Advertising
(05-31-2013 01:28 PM)Q Wrote:
Look, I don’t know what to tell you. Marx isn’t all proletarians and revolutions. If you think he hasn’t written about art, you are wrong.
For like the twenty-seventh time, this is the argument:
Marx explains how there is no “pure” art in the sense that you are describing because you can never escape socio-political contexts that bind people.
Your definition of art:
Quote:
Art sells itself. Advertising sells X.
For Marx, this is non-sensical.
Yeah, because that isn’t my argument, either. You are not reading closely enough.
Quote:
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Their superb knowledge of world art helped Marx and Engels to elaborate genuinely scientific aesthetic principles. The founders of scientific communism were thus not only able to answer the complex aesthetic questions of the previous age, but also to elaborate a fundamentally new system of aesthetic science. They did so only as a result of the great revolutionary upheaval they had brought about in philosophy by creating dialectical and historical materialism and laying down the foundations for the materialist conception of history. Though Marx and Engels have left no major writings on art, their views in this field, when collected together, form a harmonious whole which is a logical extension of their scientific and revolutionary Weltanschauung. They explained the nature of art and its paths of development, its tasks in society and social aims. Marxist aesthetics, like the whole teaching of Marx and Engels, are subordinated to the struggle for the communist reorganisation of society.
When developing their theory of aesthetics, Marx and Engels naturally based themselves on the achievements of their predecessors. But the main aesthetic problems — and above all the problem of the relationship between art and reality — were solved by them in a fundamentally new way, on the basis of materialist dialectics. Idealist aesthetics considered art as a reproduction of the ideal, standing over and* above actual reality. The origin of any art form, its development, flowering, and decay, all remained incomprehensible to the art theoreticians and historians of the pre-Marxian period, inasmuch as they studied these in isolation from man’s social existence.
Marx and Engels considered it absolutely impossible to understand art and literature proceeding only from their internal laws of development. In their opinion, the essence, origin, development, and social role of art could only be understood through analysis of the social system as a whole, within which the economic factor — the development, of productive forces in complex interaction with production relations — plays the decisive role. Thus art, as defined by Marx and Engels, is one of the forms of social consciousness and it therefore follows that the reasons for its changes should be sought in the social existence of men.
Marx and Engels revealed the social nature of art and its development in the course of history and showed that in a society with class antagonisms it was influenced by class ‘contradictions and by the politics and ideologies of particular classes.
In other words, if you are poor, you are selling the poor. If you are rich, you are selling the rich.
Yeah, except that Marx never said that. His writing is ripe for reinterpretation at the hands of many (over)zealous perspectives bent on turning his thought into whatever they want it to be.
If all you have is some supposed secondary lit., that is pretty shallow. Like I said I have read Marx, and I can tell you that “what is art?” is not an issue he tackles, ever. Is not something essential to his ideas. Granted, we can attempt to infer whatever art might or might not be given what we do know of his system. But what the fuck is the point of that, anyway? The only pathos that could sustain such an endeavor is… worship. Is that where you are coming from? The sum of your argument is a bit of secondary literature about what Marx probably thought about something that he never actually wrote about? Um.
Now, if you knew even a bit about value ontology or tectonics, you would see how this view supposedly attributed to Marx is not at all alien to where I am coming from, in fact it is a part of my overall considerations. Of course art emerges from an historica-cultural milieu in which it is embedded and to which its effect will tend to return. But this does not mean that art is nothing except this self-movement of historical capture, not at all. Like all things art takes part in that which conditions it, and is the sum of these conditioning elements and will reflect these. And as I have already written in this topic, art is a process, it is a movement. A processes maintaining fidelity to the void, however and wherever that happens to appear.
Every moment in history has, well, a historical element. Yeah, it’s pretty fucking obvious. So what is this big deal you are making out of it? If you want me to address this argument you (seem to be) making, here I am doing you that service. This idea that art is nothing but the secondary emergence of historical forces that can do nothing but sell those forces themselves, is absurd. This is nothing but unjustified reductionism that does not understand the essence of art at all: art discloses its historical milieu, among other things, and is a process of movement toward something, emerging as the effect of an inclination toward deeper and more authentic perspective and disclosure of truth. Art turns the status quo upside down. Does advertising do that? Of course not, just the opposite.
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I don’t know what is so hard to get about this. It’s a super old argument. All art, commerce, communication, it’s all theoretically been linked. But now it’s happening in actuality. In the very system that we live in.
If you want me to prescribe to a view of art that was surpassed by a guy with a Santa beard 150 years ago, it’s not going to happen. You will have to do better than the basic dichotomy you are presenting here. Marx knocks that shit down.
No, Marx never “knocks down” the idea that modern advertising and art are two essentially different endeavors. First of all because modern advertising never existed when Marx was alive, second of all because Marx never even wrote about “what is art?” to begin with, as I have already said.
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Art sells itself. Advertising sells X.
I mean just read it. Are you satisfied with that? I’m not.
Of course not. Good thing I never said that. I have already addressed this, you apparently have not been paying attention.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-31-2013, 03:00 PM Post: #187
pezer Offline
Pothead Saruman
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RE: Advertising
In selling itself, art sells that which is within the work, whatever combination of impressions, ideas, reflections, etc, the artist uses as well as the paint and canvas themselves, the tools and materials. In selling X, advertisement tries to exist outside of that which is within the advertisement work, and point to X, which is whatever is being sold consciously.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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05-31-2013, 03:04 PM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 03:04 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #188
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: Advertising
My point is that using the master-signifying concept of “selling” is a mistake. The point of art, its genesis as a process, as a reflection and a creative movement, goes entirely beyond what “selling” is able to encapsulate.
Anyone who has ever made art will know this. Anyone. Just go ask an artist.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-31-2013, 03:05 PM Post: #189
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: Advertising
It seems to me that Q and his like want to convince themselves they are artists merely because they create advertising. Well then, I guess how they want to think about their work is up to them, and who am I to shit on their parade?
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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05-31-2013, 03:27 PM Post: #190
Q Offline
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RE: Advertising
smh
smh
smh