I don’t like getting talked at. Even by powerful midnight spirits.
I am Un-Water, I am that which water hates, and that for which we drink it.
I am minerals left over from the tides, rocks that never moved from them. My ally is air that moves above it all and allows to reconstruct what water may seek to wash away.
I am the water itself.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-04-2013, 06:20 AM Post: #16
pezer Offline
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RE: Ontology and epistemology
I am the Gods, and within me, some will die.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-04-2013, 06:21 AM Post: #17
pezer Offline
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RE: Ontology and epistemology
godkillerseries.com/
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
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PostSubject: Re: Natural World Ashes Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:26 pm
Mental Health (and an obstruction)
I am here again at the room of my old friends death
He jumped here 15 years ago and I was not here. I smoked hash, with Sauwelios, in the park. We talked about Puin, we said that he was going to be fine if he minded other people a bit more. We meant us. I meant, me. He had been solitary for the recent months. He turned out to be dead. Conveniently, he had chosen for his place to die, the garden in front of my new room. I idealized his death in the absence of real sorrow - I don’t know why precisely, but the friendship I had with this cousin (oldest son to my mothers younger sister) has always been extremely strange, outer-worldly, uncomfortable, fated - he sought my company, constantly, to the great irritation of everyone around me as well as my self - in hindsight he was strongly autistic, which his parents, bone fide hippies, interpreted as special. And he was extremely special, a special case, an exception. I guess he could not live with that. But to seek death in the midst of the ones who will suffer most of it - his family, my family - and I was foolish enough to take that moment to begin to take him seriously.
I was at the age where males are recruited into armies and sects, where they are most willing to sacrifice identity for greatness. I was successfully hijacked by an ideology that I helped create, with a martyr at its center. I am the disciple, to a master who has said only “I met the devil, invited him in, offered him a tea.” Then the poem goes on to tell how Satan leaves voluntarily, and asks: “how did you think you were going to cast me out?” whereupon Puin responds: “I just did”.
Instead of facing the problem, the poem makes an overtly unsustainable leap, whereby ‘creative freedom’ will have been the argument.
Obviously, the devil had never left.
Don’t invite the devil in your life, he will enter the lives of all who love you.
Well then. How to resolve this situation? How to deal with an act of domestic terrorism? To simply interpret it as “he was crazy. The past is the past” will eventually be the only solution. But I am still convinced, my mind is still warped into thinking, that there was a holiness to this kids suicide. His rational mind was extremely powerful. His emotions were deeply troubling. I produced some music for the raps that brought him on the brink of fame - as he was preparing recording songs on five albums of established musicians, he ended the story. Promise, denial of everything that for a while embodied that promise.
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03-04-2013, 07:59 AM Post: #2
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
What was the sect?
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03-04-2013, 08:17 PM Post: #3
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
Our friendship.
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03-05-2013, 12:20 AM Post: #4
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
Aye…
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03-30-2013, 04:02 PM Post: #5
Heathen Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
(03-04-2013 06:13 AM)Fixed Cross Wrote:
Well then. How to resolve this situation? How to deal with an act of domestic terrorism? To simply interpret it as “he was crazy. The past is the past” will eventually be the only solution. But I am still convinced, my mind is still warped into thinking, that there was a holiness to this kids suicide.
I am not sure what is to be resolved. Both interpretations seem resolved. Is it just which one to choose? Are there no nagging emotions, guilt, rage, confusion beyond the choice between models or attitudes?
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03-30-2013, 09:17 PM (This post was last modified: 03-30-2013 09:19 PM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #6
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
(03-30-2013 04:02 PM)Heathen Wrote:
(03-04-2013 06:13 AM)Fixed Cross Wrote:
Well then. How to resolve this situation? How to deal with an act of domestic terrorism? To simply interpret it as “he was crazy. The past is the past” will eventually be the only solution. But I am still convinced, my mind is still warped into thinking, that there was a holiness to this kids suicide.
I am not sure what is to be resolved. Both interpretations seem resolved. Is it just which one to choose? Are there no nagging emotions, guilt, rage, confusion beyond the choice between models or attitudes?
Yes, a lot of them indeed. Rage, confusion, and perhaps even guilt, though there may be too much confusion to make that out as guilt. Also, fear. Fear of trust. I put a great portion of my trust in the future in this guy at one point, at least, I identified this trust with our friendship and collaborations. When he killed hikmself I was fresh enough to have this make a serious impact on the whole of my concept of trust and hope - Often when I have a hope now, it is accompanied by tremendous fear of killing someone with that hope.
As far as the guilt goes… it’s difficult to understand how I am guilty, then again, very easy - I was the one who introduced him to psychoactive drugs. That is, I told him about my use of them. He had always had contempt for that sort of thing, suddenly it appeared to him there was something to respect in it.
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03-31-2013, 12:08 AM Post: #7
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
Lol. Man, it’s like I’m your friend, but I ran to my family instead of killing myself. And the you version in my life found a monster girlfriend to drown in. Very sweet of him, but he really shouldn’t.
I did something Evil to him. I don’t know how I’m gonna approach him yet some day, my own confusion.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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03-31-2013, 07:43 AM (This post was last modified: 03-31-2013 07:44 AM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #8
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
It sounds like the lesser evil… and not counting only what he did to me. His younger brother and his parents - his dad had already seen his sister and mother suicided - etc. It’s the bedroom question that nags it for me, that was right where I slept. On top of that there was the magick, the reason I began to think about the soul as separate from the personality and radically destroyed the personality in favor of what turned out to be a void - fertile but empty of itself. It took Nietzsche to redraw blood and discover a portion of what was real - all through pain of ancestry and pride in presence.
During the course of this I had shifting relations with this dead relative, in which I dreamt sometimes that he was alive, but that ended quickly. Later I dreamt of his old house, from before when he went to live on the top floor of my families house, and making paths and discovering empty rooms. But I was never able to either feel guilt or get angry - all I was was confused and inspired. I made a lot of decisions then that would not have seen sane in normal conditions. Back then the consequences were illuminating. I can no longer thrive on this current of question-motion from past to present. The set time for extra-real advance is right this future.
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03-31-2013, 08:24 AM Post: #9
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
We should get cracking on that temple…
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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03-31-2013, 08:30 AM Post: #10
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
(03-30-2013 09:17 PM)Fixed Cross Wrote:
Yes, a lot of them indeed. Rage, confusion, and perhaps even guilt, though there may be too much confusion to make that out as guilt. Also, fear. Fear of trust. I put a great portion of my trust in the future in this guy at one point, at least, I identified this trust with our friendship and collaborations. When he killed hikmself I was fresh enough to have this make a serious impact on the whole of my concept of trust and hope - Often when I have a hope now, it is accompanied by tremendous fear of killing someone with that hope.
OK, I can relate, both to the feelings and to the really rather odd negative magical thinking that one finds in there around things like this. I had a close family member that was in a lot of pain and it seemed to me had opted not to be alive to avoid the pain. Like, there was something wrong with her, she thought, and so therefore it made sense to be like a walking corpse, hiding, not really living. I challenged this, at a certain age, but before that and after that I could also contribute to it - her misconception of herself. Finally I gave up trying to challenge it, which really fucking hurt. Becasue it meant I pretty much had to grieve her death while she was still walking around. There are still twists and knots and unexpressed emotions around this. And then weird magical thinking that if I love something it will die.
As far as the guilt. It is often easy to deny guilt and then it really fucks you up.
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
You must hold on first and foremost to clear thinking. It is what is most at risk.
You know, Nietzsche said a philosopher must die many times before becoming a philosopher…
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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03-31-2013, 10:08 PM Post: #12
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
I’ve only known people who’ve made attempts at suicide, or insisted on telling me that they were thinking about it a lot. I’ve never actually known anyone who killed themselves.
I have to say, madness is one of those things that makes me believe in, if you like, evil spirits or forces, both from my own experience and from seeing it in other people. Believe it or not, I’m quite good at talking people back away from madness, helping them feel normal again, though this does make me something of a lightning rod for crazy people. But seeing them struggle with something that simply makes no sense in this realm, that strikes me as otherworldly, it regularly gives me pause for thought.
Ultimately, there’s only ever so much you can do for other people. Retaining your own sanity is the key.
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03-31-2013, 11:03 PM (This post was last modified: 03-31-2013 11:10 PM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #13
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
I was somewhat “over” this suicide of my cousin, and then my girlfriends ex boyfriend killed himsel, the guy she left for me. That didn’t really help. I felt very guilty about that one and it literally almost killed me to think I was cause to this, it was extremely difficult to not see myself as the cause, also given the nature of the interactions the three of us had had. It was only because I arrived at value ontology that I turbed that around and got out of that deathtrap. So there’s the upside, and at once a testament to the specific value of value ontology. I needed to understand that I was ontologically forced to keep my own perspective and not care, identify too much with those for whom I care, that I would not only die if I did not, but that I would violate a universal law that includes love. That one is really born out of necessity.
Dark magic, entities - I can’t escape that notion either. There seem to be a lot of forces and entities that are not grounded in rationally explainaible, Earthly business. I have no particular “talent” (curse) to perceive them but they are still able to haunt me when I am too strongly questioning.
Sticking with the value ontological approach, I think that when there’s been made a kind of gap, hiatus in the self indeitifcation, there is space for rampant entities to feed off the nervous system. My quest after the second close suicide was of becoming more of an ‘egoist’ - or simply an ego, where the quest after the first one was of cultivating that hiatus, void, breach, in terms of opening the ‘doors of perception’.
I’ve seen and understood much more than I would have if no one had killed themselves, that is certain to me. But there’s no way of doing justice, of materializing this without something very manifest, something that won’t slip through the cracks into oblivion. The idea I have for these temples, I know that would work and be a great capitalist venture as well as a proper monument to the future and challenge to the rotting past. As when I was surging through these dark channels I was under the impression that I was rich, had something that everyone required, was initiated.
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04-01-2013, 08:10 AM Post: #14
Heathen Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
(03-31-2013 10:08 PM)BigTom Wrote:
I’ve only known people who’ve made attempts at suicide, or insisted on telling me that they were thinking about it a lot. I’ve never actually known anyone who killed themselves.
I have to say, madness is one of those things that makes me believe in, if you like, evil spirits or forces, both from my own experience and from seeing it in other people.
I definitely think this can be the case. And I find milder versions is people who are getting along fairly well, but are suffering this or that.
I think these ‘forces’ can literally be what other people dump out of themselves and we take in. And one can end this carrying other people shit, but often it is not so easy.
[/quote]
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04-01-2013, 08:12 AM Post: #15
Heathen Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
(03-31-2013 11:03 PM)Fixed Cross Wrote:
Sticking with the value ontological approach, I think that when there’s been made a kind of gap, hiatus in the self indeitifcation, there is space for rampant entities to feed off the nervous system.
Nicely worded. I often say ‘hole’ and this sounded very familiar.
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04-01-2013, 08:15 AM Post: #16
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
Interesting…
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-01-2013, 08:15 AM Post: #17
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-01-2013, 08:16 AM Post: #18
pezer Offline
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
Fuck, I love magicians.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-04-2013, 06:36 AM Post: #19
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
(04-01-2013 08:16 AM)pezer Wrote:
Fuck, I love magicians.
In this country there’s a long-running connection between magicians and the security services.
Which makes me think Derren Brown is a spook.
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04-04-2013, 10:10 AM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 10:10 AM by Q.) Post: #20
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RE: Mental Health (and an obstruction)
For me it was when he was allowed to traumatize people horrifically on television. That is usually a sign that you are backed. When you can traumatize people horrifically on television.
Although, not always.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
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PostSubject: Re: Natural World Ashes Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:27 pm
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Here’s to Abstract
I was very sad to have learned of Abstracts passing. I don’t know if you all knew him, or if those that did, know of his death, I just learned about it two days ago. It did not come as a surprise to me, it was hanging in the air like inevitable doom. He was “too good for this world” as they sometimes say. In his case I think this really applies. He was a truly sweet, bright and honest young man, and in a better world he might have been happy. I think that we should find some value in the idea that he valued us, that he trusted us, online thinkers, more than he trusted his own environment. We should take that seriously, as I’ve been fucking saying. This is not a joke. The world is turning to hell, and we’re all that’s left, for each other.
Abstract was at the beginning of my realization that there might be a future after all, that the internet, it’s realm of free exchange of thought, is a real place. I had been dwelling here for a decade, but it never dawned on me that this may be the true reality, the true future of “good” (to avoid being blasphemous, I specify good-to-me) that has a chance of procreating, spawning a new reality. Where else than on the internet would I have met an Abstract, or for that matter, any of you who read this? The honesty that is possible here, we should value this even more than we do now.
During the last year I lost some of the connection I had with Abstract, and I am very happy to learn, on ILP and from private mails, that others have stayed in intensive contact with him. He was not alone. But he was mentally ill as one could say, “psychic” as I would say - his mind was extremely receptive, far, far beyond what is comfortable. This is of course what made him so extremely keen, quick, clever, understanding, but also what made him confused in what must have been a relatively very cruel and dull “real”-world.
He is one of us, as far as I’m concerned, at the center of what I love about this place, the online philosophy-campfire, and I really mean it when I say that all of us can and must learn from him the virtues of understanding and good will, tolerance, patience, lack of judgmentally. This goes for me not in the last place, of course.
Well, here’s to you Abstract - your given name was Robin, but I will remember you by your self-chosen one. I love you dude, if that’s the proper term - I certainly will never forget.
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03-26-2013, 09:06 AM Post: #2
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RE: Here’s to Abstract
Quote:
We should value this even more than we do now.
I agree.
I didn’t really know him, but this is a sad story. Mental illness is the worst thing.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-26-2013, 10:11 AM Post: #3
pezer Offline
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RE: Here’s to Abstract
A brother has fallen.
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03-27-2013, 02:05 AM Post: #4
BigTom Offline
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RE: Here’s to Abstract
I never knew him that well, but he seemed very smart and very kind, two things that don’t make for easy living in this world but make for a wonderful person.
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03-27-2013, 12:29 PM (This post was last modified: 03-27-2013 12:32 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #5
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RE: Here’s to Abstract
Abstract, I miss you. A hell of a lot more than I would have thought, I think.
As the saying goes, this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you. Be in peace, my friend.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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04-04-2013, 02:02 AM Post: #6
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RE: Here’s to Abstract
I realize I’m late to the party train on this one, and…
Well, I didn’t know Abstract well, in fact I didn’t really know him at all, but I’ve been very saddened by this whole ordeal.
I’m sorry, to those of you who did know him, and considered him a friend.
“Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try!”
-Dr. Seuss
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04-04-2013, 02:00 PM Post: #7
pezer Offline
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RE: Here’s to Abstract
Abstract had a vision… A vision beyond just knowing what’s wrong. He understood what’s right, and that killed him.
Blessed be the wrong, blessed be the evil and dark and subtly unattainable.
Blessed be the unlcear, the squinting eyes of fate.
Blessed is my fate, it is unclear.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-07-2013, 10:16 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2013 10:21 AM by Heathen.) Post: #8
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RE: Here’s to Abstract
I liked Abstract, he was kind and smart and willing to play and explore ideas. A lot of people say they have an open mind. He never said this, I don’t think, but it seemed like he actually had one. That he could really consider an idea he disagreed with. And not with any particular naivte. It shocked me that he died. In his last thread over there in ILP I took a pretty strong ante-psychiatric line, though I did keep asking Abstract to explain more what went on when they locked him in. That more never came. I’ll miss him.
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04-07-2013, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2013 10:42 AM by pezer.) Post: #9
pezer Offline
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RE: Here’s to Abstract
Pain is a destroyer of perception and will to live. We must be careful when we tease it out of people, if we want it to grow something in them or provoke some evolution instead of destroy them.
Sometimes, though, perhaps destruction is simply unavoidable.
This is why psychologists are required to get a doctorate in Canada before they can practice.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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PostSubject: Re: Natural World Ashes Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:28 pm
BAAAAAAAAAAAAABY lon
From the moment I got back in the streets after meeting a girlfriend from far back in youth, it was dark and I was on my bike. I was drunk and she had not been pleased with the amount of weed I mixed with the tobacco in my evening smoke. The night was warm, this summer I remember quite lively in a few flushed instants of expectation.
It must have been at 15 minutes in, as I crossed the Berlage, that I noticed I was talking in a strange tongue, and yes it was the tounge of Babel, now Ural then Semite then Mongol… and as I coursed through the continents the power peaked and suddenly I was proclaiming Turanian syllables like beads in word-chains climaxing in thunder from my chest.
Several thousands of days I uttered such strings, and now finally I saw their meaning in the eyes of a cat - (which is an anagram of act) - I have learned much by the tools of forgotten shadows and lights.
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04-08-2013, 06:30 AM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2013 06:31 AM by Q.) Post: #2
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RE: BAAAAAAAAAAAAABY lon
Nice.
After looming fairly seriously at the Stoned Ape theory I have been giving more and more thought to (I forget the word) “auto talking”, and how that could relate to genetic memory.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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04-08-2013, 08:33 AM Post: #3
pezer Offline
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RE: BAAAAAAAAAAAAABY lon
Genetic memory is key.
Science is found in the question “how do you know?”
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04-09-2013, 10:58 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 06:16 AM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #4
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RE: BAAAAAAAAAAAAABY lon
[edit] yes.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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Fixed Cross
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PostSubject: Re: Natural World Ashes Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:28 pm
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Esoteric Astrology
This thread be dedicated to Esoteric Astrology.
In this field I have relied on the works of Alice Bailey, Who based here writing on the foundations laid out by Helena Blavatsky and the third, most mysterious figure - “The Tibetan”. But only when I read “Tapestry of the Gods” by a theosophist that I was able to meditate.
It is only fitting that I spend a great deal of space bringing up citations from this book, which can be found online and will be linked at each citation or set of citations.
In fact, I may not be able to do much more than point you to this supremely effective way of psychologizing, so that you may mediate yourself more proficiently.
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03-13-2013, 01:41 PM Post: #2 |
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RE: Esoteric Astrology
So, what’s the difference between esoteric Astrology and other kinds?
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03-14-2013, 01:53 AM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2013 01:55 AM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #3 |
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RE: Esoteric Astrology
It takes on a different ‘language’, as it introduces the concept of “rays”. It is very much the sort of thing that allows for mockery, and very opaque in that respect. I mean really, who is going to take seriously a system of psychology based on cosmic rays ? It sounds straight out of a very bad science fiction movie. And as if normal astrology wasn’t ridiculous enough…
Anyway, I do believe in it, as always only after exhaustive experiment. But I am very embarrassed telling people about it.
But who cares, we’re on NWO. Here’s how the Rays are identified, in the most frequently used terms.
Ray 1: Will and Power
Ra2 2: Love and Wisdom
Ray 3: Active Mind
Ray 4: Harmony through Opposites
Ray 5: Concrete Science
Ray 6: Abstract Idealism
Ray 7: Ceremonial Magic.
As this becomes the primary logos, the Sun, moon and planets, as well as the stars and signs are brought under it, interpreted in terms of these rays. Jupiter and Sun, for example, seem to belong to Ray 2. Saturn is ray 3. Moon and Mercury ray 4. But this is not going to be of any use to anyone who isn’t already deep into astrology. What might be interesting though is to read about the psychology attributed to the rays, without any astrological context. In fact one needs not be aware (or believe) that this has anything to do with anything outside of the body, as you can treat it as a typology, much like Myers Briggs and such things. In my experience it is more effective and accurate.
If you want to find out your “ray type”, dig into these books.
makara.us/04mdr/01writing/01tg/tapestry1.pdf
makara.us/04mdr/01writing/02tg/tapestry2.pdf
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04-07-2013, 02:40 PM Post: #4 |
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RE: Esoteric Astrology
Hi, thanks for the links. I might actually read them - since I have some interest in integral psychology also - but it is much easier for me to learn from a concrete example. Could you link to either your own chart or a famous person’s chart and explain what insights the rays give you that would not come out in some other version of astrology.
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04-10-2013, 07:49 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 07:51 AM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #5 |
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RE: Esoteric Astrology
It’s quite an ambiguous undertaking seeing that there isn’t any rosetta stone for this. I’ve never done this before with anyone besides myself. I only found out real data through very extensive experimentation with my approach to others. I found out which ray leads me quickest to my goals.
I recommend reading through this.
Tell me if this makes sense. It was only through experimenting with the rays that I began to realize the hierarchy of planetary influences in my chart - which planets are the most ‘noble’ in terms of what I want to accomplish and am able to be. EA makes it slightly easier to ‘zero in’ on influences.
But I am truly a novice at this - I began my experiments two years ago. I also don’t know how you are used to working - perhaps you can propose a chart to examine.
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