Q Offline
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RE: (de)Calcification of the Pineal Gland
How could this be a Canadian only thing?
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-23-2013, 12:13 PM Post: #27
Q Offline
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RE: (de)Calcification of the Pineal Gland
Or was that a joke? Everyone submits to an authority. We’re just chill people because we like weed.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-24-2013, 10:02 PM (This post was last modified: 03-24-2013 10:03 PM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #28
Fixed Cross Offline
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RE: (de)Calcification of the Pineal Gland
Very interesting. I asked you about the Japanese - that’s explained quite well, I’d say. Many far eastern men do have the androgynous quality, to the point of the Thai, who seem to have all but lost the distinction between man and woman. Thanks, this is a great piece of information.
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03-25-2013, 02:54 AM Post: #29
pezer Offline
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RE: (de)Calcification of the Pineal Gland
Canada has never really experienced a deep questioning of authority. No ideological or religious wars to speak of, no territorial wars of great magnitude, completely chill attitude towards the natives… Canadians just take authority for granted. If you apply that standard of power for hundreds of years, guys eventually start to forget what testosterone even is.
Not because we are Canadian, and I’m putting myself in at this point, but because history happens. The US was there to take care of real territorial or native threats, no other neighbors to worry about, no real bad experiences with the Crown, no strong ideological contradictions that couldn’t be easily maintained… It happens. Maybe it is me who has to learn to stop fussing about power…!
Fact remains, where you see manipulations of nutrition, I see dynamics of authority.
Some Venezuelan natives, too, get to be indistinguishable man from woman sometimes, but the Canadian case isn’t genetic like that, I don’t think. More hormonal, likely.
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03-25-2013, 05:26 AM Post: #30
Q Offline
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RE: (de)Calcification of the Pineal Gland
Don’t forget about BPA
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
pezer Offline
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RE: (de)Calcification of the Pineal Gland
Sometimes, I just love my awareness of my own unawareness.
In any case, my mind is already making links between the threat of a derailment of that Canadian system I described and the power of chemical companies to manipulate your hormones. It doesn’t, for that reason, discard the possibility of it being a random product of petroleum industrialization.
That’s what I like about Power philosophies… they are very trackable. Maybe that is their weakness, too.
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03-25-2013, 06:53 AM Post: #32
Q Offline
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RE: (de)Calcification of the Pineal Gland
I think it’s both.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
You may not realize it
we have a truth, a power. Distilled from ILP, international alliance, philosophy, secret service, occultism, science - all we need now to power is art, a form, in which we, each, - fill in verb. Then ten years of development, independent, occasionally together. The mere fact of the thought of a void to fill is power. The void is extreme. There never was such a wide void, not on Earth, not since ape became man.
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03-23-2013, 07:04 AM Post: #2
Q Offline
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RE: You may.not realize it
That is a bold statement.
… I like it.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-23-2013, 08:06 PM Post: #3
BigTom Offline
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RE: You may.not realize it
You’re right, but at this time of day all that’s coming to mind is ‘void’ jokes.
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03-25-2013, 08:18 AM Post: #4
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
The problem is how large the void is, how slowly it has been accumulated without any answer. To fill it now would seem an impossible task.
I don’t know how to have hope anymore. I mean, to have hope has basically become to deny the reality of things. So, what does one do with that? We can acclaim what Zizek and Badiou write about having hope for hope’s sake, this being the truly “radical” act, but c’mon. We all know that is a bunch of bullshit.
We suffer from a lack of practical, real steps to take at this juncture. This is not a small problem, and we should not underestimate it in favor of good-feeling platitudes or faith-based idealism, however well-intended and “potentially potentiating” it may be.
We have power, but what is that power? Let us define it, first of all. The “enemy” counts on nothing so much as our own unfocused zeal.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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03-25-2013, 08:20 AM Post: #5
pezer Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
We have a couple of things brewing in this forum. This is no ILP, or even BTL.
Don’t hope. Never hope.
Just… Expect the unexpected.
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03-25-2013, 09:20 AM Post: #6
Q Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
The power lies in the amorphous. The blob that is the internet.
Say what you want about ‘Anonymous,’ it is a concept that cannot really be killed, and we are a part of that here even if we in no way align ourselves with the group.
Humans swarm. As long as the internet stays open, we shouldn’t need much of a plan other than to just keep operating without one. Expect us. After all, the underlying commonality between everyone here, and a good majority of the people alive, is that they are kind of vaguely opposed to the current power structure.
When forums get big enough they send in their disinfo squads, but those disinfo squads have a tough time on places like 4chan because there is no leader. All they have left to do is just paste disgusting pictures or something along those lines. That is somewhat what I want this place to be like.
All these emergent elements that exist online are the future, and all their planes are based on psychological theory that, while still relevant, was largely formulated last century. Any organization - but especially these huge corporate structures and global conglomerate think tanks - is going to have a hard time keeping up with the speed at which the internet changes and adapts. Kissinger and other people say they are behind something like ten years. The internet is why. I would imagine it’s awfully hard to data model something like the effect of the internet before it exists. I know they intended it to be used as an information gathering tool, but I don’t think they could have anticipated how it would go. It’s almost getting comical now how they keep trying to shut down the net but it prevents them from doing so almost automatically.
No one is in control of this thing. Order from chaos. We use their tactics along with some of our own.
Lights out.
youtube.com/watch?v=H0kJLW2EwMg
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-26-2013, 02:26 AM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2013 02:31 AM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #7
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
How long do you think the internet will remain “open”?
To generate in you a feeling of power, naive belief based on, really… nothing… is perhaps the gravest threat of all. The internet is perhaps the greatest weapon against you, your greatest weakness because it generates in you such immense feelings of power when in fact all you’re doing is—sitting in a chair staring at a screen.
So where is your power? I mean, really? I am genuinely curious. Show me. If you cannot, then I offer that you are merely already a powerless and self-deceived pawn, well trained to stare passively into the Tele-screen.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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03-26-2013, 05:24 AM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2013 05:24 AM by pezer.) Post: #8
pezer Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
We seek to make the terrain so that a philosopher like you can have something to enjoy 100 years from now.
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03-26-2013, 05:26 AM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2013 05:28 AM by pezer.) Post: #9
pezer Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
If our first steps are lumbering, it is a measure of our awareness of how delicate is this task. If they seem delusional, it is a measure of what we have chosen, and expect no one to understand who doesn’t already.
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03-26-2013, 05:29 AM Post: #10
Q Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
Obviously if the internet goes down we’re fucked. Read my post again and you tell me if what I read really has to be applied to the internet, on the internet. What I said is that the emergent phenomena we’ve seen as a result of the internet is our true power.
The revolution has already been formed worldwide. Now that we know how humans can operate, even if they bring it down it won’t matter. We’ve already learned what we have to learn. They meant for it to go down long ago, and despite their best attempts, they cannot seem to get it to go down. The new private internet has been up and ready to go for like 5-years or whatever. They’ve had like 3 SOPAs. You tell me if you think they have it all under control.
Honestly, I don’t think you really read my post. Do you know how many people we’ve/I’ve seen with the same attitude like yours where you disavow talking to people online - while talking to people online? What are you doing in the real world? Organizing some militia? lol. Even if the net goes down, the real fight will be online anyway. The reason you struggle to find this ‘plan of operation’ is because you are even bothering to look in the first place.
You need to fundamentally reconsider a couple thinks I think. No one is going to give you the plan, dude. The plan is to eat healthy, stay alive, and stay connected. The rest is automatic. My suggestion would be to learn about setting up a LAN in your city, or figuring out where and how what invariably will be a local internet can be found and accessed.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
RE: You may not realize it
Quote:
So where is your power? I mean, really? I am genuinely curious. Show me. If you cannot, then I offer that you are merely already a powerless and self-deceived pawn, well trained to stare passively into the Tele-screen.
For me it’s programming. It’s awfully hard to control someone with technology if they have a better control on that technology.
They use computers against us, and ‘they’ don’t even understand computers. I am born into it.
I use a special version of chrome with the tracking parts ripped out. I have multiple encrypted emails. I don’t need to pay for software. etc. etc. I have tons of PDFs I have acquired from one source or another, and if I want to learn about another subject I can just get more, for free, even if they are restricted. There is very little information I can’t find in one way or another if I really put my mind to it. And if I can’t, I can usually find someone else who has found what I need.
You may sit and stare at a screen. I sit and stare at another world where the possibilities are endless. That’s my power. Maybe yours is throwing axes at trees. We all have our specialties.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-26-2013, 05:46 AM Post: #12
Q Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
What is your power? Do you have anything to share or are you just some naysayer?
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-26-2013, 09:38 AM Post: #13
Fixed Cross Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
Despite Chain being my philosophical bloodbrother, I side with Pezer and Q here. The internet, and this place as a representation, works, adds to evolution. Imagine, 2 years ago, that this would have worked. I would have been surprised to learn of this situation then. The progress we’ve made is not very visible to us yet, right now. Evolution is blind.
If you read my post on ILP in the Academy (no real need to, and if, just read the first couple of paragraphs) that I had on the front page here, in the beginning - the Creative Tyranny. I mean what it takes to bind elements together.
As contrary as we are, we - choose to be here. And this place, as Pezer says, is slightly different from the other places. What did not work on BTL (and surely never was even intended with ILP) might and does seem to begin to work here. And even ILP is a great step forward considering the chaos of normal human written interchange.
What’s crucial for a structure is that its elements find value in each other. And this can not be faked. It is hard for Q to find value in Chain and vice versa. This value does seem to exist, though, as both are philosophers in the sense of not shunning confrontation, putting up with misunderstanding, challenging, keeping with it.
Something is brewing indeed. And this forum is young. BTL was a successful experiment as far as I’m concerned. From my perspective, this is the next step.
Perhaps we may publish a poem by Abstract on the front page. It’s just a suggestion. You may not realize it, but this community is a community, and powerful influences have already been born and bred here. As I said we need art to bind this together. Q had understood this from the outset. I look forward to the moment when the leaders here (and I profoundly respect them and their choices a and the time they need) will choose to begin to publish on the front page.
For a short while, as Q and I fell apart because of the divisive subject of religion and race which I have no desire right now to ever address again, the project seemed to have failed. Thankfully fresh blood was brewing.
I never lost faith in Q or NWO - just in my own value to the projects continuation. Now this faith is returning.
Magic is realer than reason. Magic, of course, being “love under will”.
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03-26-2013, 09:39 AM Post: #14
Q Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
One of the things I’ve learned the more that I learn is that this is still relatively the Wild West in terms of technology. The internet is a wide open place with little restriction. Everything may be monitored but it’s just stored somewhere. So what? That only matters if we allow laws to be changed such that just talking normally is illegal.
To be quite frank, I don’t even care if I’m recorded when it comes to most things. It’s kind of how e-commerce works nowadays. Old people balk at how younger people share so much of themselves online but they don’t get it: that is how things will work from now on, and what allows for many of the cool things that people seem to enjoy doing. Not mindless people. Pretty much everyone. Look at Youtube.
Regardless of whether or not there is some power conglomerate that is looking to enslave the earth, people will share their lives. It’s in our nature to share, we were just given the medium to do it. People will use computers of some sort because self-awareness is intrinsically linked to technology.
And people will always revolt because no one likes being enslaved – the question is, with that acknowledged, what happens now? I feel like if you were part of ‘that’ type of resistance you would be in an IRC chat room scheming on how to bring down the next senator or something with a Guy Fawks mask on. If you were part of it, you would know, and if you want to be there is nothing stopping you. Plus there is nothing mutually exclusive between that, and then also being here.
What attracts people, energy, and ideas these days is the platform not the chant of the army. I think the less ‘defined’ we are the better. We’re working on the platform. I have to learn javscript first.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-26-2013, 09:47 AM Post: #15
Fixed Cross Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
The internet was invented by rogue geniuses, individuals, hired by armies. Now the internet exists, and rogue individuals are inhabiting it and shaping it. The military industrial complex is a means. Historic dialectics. Marx meets Nietzsche.
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03-26-2013, 12:46 PM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2013 12:48 PM by ChainOfBeing.) Post: #16
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
Part of the problem is dependency. Can you build a computer on your own? I mean manufacture the motherboard, the cpu, the hardware yourself? Can you and some friends do it? Can you build an internet at the local level? Sure, your city can set up a LAN, but my point is that we are highly dependent upon the continued functioning of a very high level of technological and affluent society.
Another part of the problem: 99% of people don’t use the internet the way we do. They really use it to worsen themselves and their life, and the lives of others around them. The internet feeds gluttony, ignorance, insanity, mass apathy and irresponsible consumerism way, way more than it feeds higher intellectual possibilities such as are represented by NWO or BTL.
So we have two essential problems here, which I would like to be seriously considered by you.
On the issue of dependency, before the internet we used to communicate in person or via letters and books. Now its all going online, where it can be turned off with the flip of a switch. What do you think about that? Giving your power over to the easy with which we surf the internet, when its all dependent upon a whole host of services continuing for your benefit, these services themselves tied into the very systems which we intend to be working to change/undermine/improve?
There are internet kill switches. You probably know that. So if we are getting all paranoid here, what makes you think these will not be used? Hell, what makes you think modern socioeconomics on the global level are going to continue as they are? The West is getting fat off the blood and tears of the rest of the planet, as has been going on since colonial days. Can this really continue forever? I mean, let’s ask ourselves the tough questions, is all I am saying.
People used to meet, correspond and plan/acquire power either in person or via letters and books, tangible written correspondence. These were real relations between real people and things. Now, we all meet in a virtual format, which is all well and good in how easy it makes things, how vast the connective possibilities are, but to ignore the extreme dependency built into this system itself is stunning ignorance, or maybe a desire not to see the threats we face.
Granted, if you asked me, “What then is power, I mean how would YOU define it?” I would have to answer, honestly, we have almost no power at all, and I cannot see any scenario where “we” (“the people”) might acquire it any time soon. Why is that? Because I am defeatist and nihilistic? No. It is because most of “the people” don’t want anything to do with power. And all the political and intellectual channels for legitimate, real power are becoming more and more homogenized to means prescribed by the system itself. Resistance is pushed to the margins even as it becomes more “in your face”, more “obvious”. Guattari knew this. Just look at OWS, and how that went… nowhere.
Look, I am not trying to be confrontational here, but I refuse to romanticize the situation of the world and humanity the way I see it too often romanticized, as if we have some privileged power and potential merely because we have been given computer devices. Believe me, I wish it were different. But I don’t think it is. I think it is much worse.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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03-26-2013, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2013 06:53 PM by pezer.) Post: #17
pezer Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
You underestimate us, all of our purposes are much more specific than this site. This isn’t our gun, it’s our water. And we want to give people some of our water. ¿Remember Idiocracy? Sometimes, watering life is the most gigantic act of war.
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03-26-2013, 11:13 PM Post: #18
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
(03-26-2013 06:43 PM)pezer Wrote:
You underestimate us, all of our purposes are much more specific than this site. This isn’t our gun, it’s our water. And we want to give people some of our water. ¿Remember Idiocracy? Sometimes, watering life is the most gigantic act of war.
Good to know that your purpose is so specific.
I raise some very specific questions in my previous post here, which would be nice to have addressed, or at least thought of. I think these are essential issues. We cannot fall prey to idealism or romanticism, no matter how “nice” this may be. And of course I cannot know your own specific purposes, as you said, unless you tell me.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
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03-26-2013, 11:16 PM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2013 11:17 PM by Fixed Cross.) Post: #19
Fixed Cross Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
I see something of a contradiction here, a double negative. If there are internet cut-switches, and the internet feeds apathy and irrealism, then so what about… either? It does not matter, can not matter to us. We are to value this thing in our terms, and that is what we are doing. This is evolving, testing the outskirts of potential, marginalizing from the mean in order to stand apart, become solid, real.
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03-27-2013, 12:04 AM Post: #20
ChainOfBeing Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
(03-26-2013 11:16 PM)Fixed Cross Wrote:
I see something of a contradiction here, a double negative. If there are internet cut-switches, and the internet feeds apathy and irrealism, then so what about… either? It does not matter, can not matter to us. We are to value this thing in our terms, and that is what we are doing. This is evolving, testing the outskirts of potential, marginalizing from the mean in order to stand apart, become solid, real.
I agree with this. We have no choice but to value the internet in our own terms. We can neglect that which is not important to us, toward the completion of our ends, this too is necessary of course. But I wish to point out that we are putting our power and capability within a medium that is very new and could radically change at any time. This medium, the internet, there is no way to know if it will survive in more or less its present form for many more generations. The sheer amount of structure and ongoing productivity and economic activity that is needed to sustain the internet is staggering. And additional to this, the freedom of the internet is always under attack, and more and more with smart phones we see our internet signature becoming more central, anonymity being undermined, and attempts to regulate are always on the horizon.
To me, there is a lot of danger is relying so much on the internet as the medium for our power. But of course we should use all means at our disposal, absolutely. If the internet changed or became unfree, we could always continue what we have been doing in other ways, perhaps reverting back to letters or books. This is one reason that a year or so ago I wanted to compile a large list of philosophers and “honest thinkers”. It included email addresses only but perhaps could include real addresses too, at some point in the future.
I would like to see an edifice raised, a project willed that takes shape under real power and influence. I agree that the internet represents this potential too, but I worry about idealizing the potential of the internet to the point of forsaking other options. And of course I have difficulty with “groundless hope” or hope that relies on a good degree of denial to constitute and preserve itself, this is something I really struggle with. I realize others do not necessarily struggle with this as much as I do, which is something that I am glad for.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
RE: You may not realize it
The question is whether or not we rely on the Internet as much as what came before. How many people here know how to make paper?
There is always dependence to a certain extent.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-27-2013, 03:18 AM Post: #22
Q Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
Or perhaps better put, isn’t there always some dependence in one form or another? I mean I would agree that we’re more dependent on the net than the paper paradigm, but I wouldn’t worry so much about internet kill switches. It still takes someone in the military to throw them. I would imagine they will end up being less effective then thought even if they do go ahead and pull them.
Ultimately we can either use computers or try and do the same thing without them. I put it to you it’s more effective to use them.
How bout getting off all these antibiotics?
How bout stopping eating when I’m full up?
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03-27-2013, 04:40 AM Post: #23
pezer Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
To me, really, it seems that, if they activate a killswitch, it will be a sign that we have made great progress.
ChainOfBeing, if you will not join us, join our discussions! Babies all around, but what think you, for example, of architecture? Don’t answer that here, find the right place in our forum.
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03-27-2013, 10:39 AM Post: #24
Fixed Cross Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
(03-27-2013 12:04 AM)ChainOfBeing Wrote:
(03-26-2013 11:16 PM)Fixed Cross Wrote:
I see something of a contradiction here, a double negative. If there are internet cut-switches, and the internet feeds apathy and irrealism, then so what about… either? It does not matter, can not matter to us. We are to value this thing in our terms, and that is what we are doing. This is evolving, testing the outskirts of potential, marginalizing from the mean in order to stand apart, become solid, real.
I agree with this. We have no choice but to value the internet in our own terms. We can neglect that which is not important to us, toward the completion of our ends, this too is necessary of course. But I wish to point out that we are putting our power and capability within a medium that is very new and could radically change at any time. This medium, the internet, there is no way to know if it will survive in more or less its present form for many more generations. The sheer amount of structure and ongoing productivity and economic activity that is needed to sustain the internet is staggering. And additional to this, the freedom of the internet is always under attack, and more and more with smart phones we see our internet signature becoming more central, anonymity being undermined, and attempts to regulate are always on the horizon.
All true, and I am only now beginning to fully overcome my discomfort with this. I realize, also due to the evolution discussion you guys are having, that the only approach to life and power is based on the acceptance of phases. Passing influences, which have to be turned to advantages. I feel more and more comfortable with the internet and its temporal nature knowing that my influence (some of it) is lasting and benefic. Also, that benefic influence is lasting, and malefic influence is passing. The internet is a means, not more than that. It exists now in this flash of time (may continue for very long, may not) and that makes it even more justified to make use of it. No structure is eternal, only principles of necessities are. I stick close to these principles in my acts, and let visions and structures emerge. Some of these will dissipate and fall, others turn out to grow and evolve beyond what I could foresee. The truer my initial acts was to the necessary principle, the more the resulting vision or structure reverberates with my will. The cosmos makes a lot of sense to me in this way.
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To me, there is a lot of danger is relying so much on the internet as the medium for our power.
Whatever happens, it did already facilitate the conception of value ontology, and did a bunch of other things for us. Ever since, I was suddenly able to put my trust in it, to ‘bluff’ with time, to just project a timeline, based on honest estimations, of what can be accomplished if this medium persist, and if I persist using the medium
Neither is a given. But the results so far have been very real to me, and I have no good reason to turn my back on it.
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But of course we should use all means at our disposal, absolutely. If the internet changed or became unfree, we could always continue what we have been doing in other ways, perhaps reverting back to letters or books. This is one reason that a year or so ago I wanted to compile a large list of philosophers and “honest thinkers”. It included email addresses only but perhaps could include real addresses too, at some point in the future.
Good idea. I also often consider printing out valuable texts, or at least storing them on non magnetic media, such as CD’s. Anyway, the internet should be treated as a means, but to make this means more effective, we have to work with it creatively and trustingly, mine it, milk it, use to to create realities. It won’t be of use when we’re too sceptic of its reality - a medium does not itself have to be the most reliable reality to produce real results. Strangely.
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I would like to see an edifice raised, a project willed that takes shape under real power and influence. I agree that the internet represents this potential too, but I worry about idealizing the potential of the internet to the point of forsaking other options. And of course I have difficulty with “groundless hope” or hope that relies on a good degree of denial to constitute and preserve itself, this is something I really struggle with. I realize others do not necessarily struggle with this as much as I do, which is something that I am glad for.
For myself I can say that I’ve accepted such a great degree of destruction in my family’s history that I’m not worried anymore about hoping idly - All the hopes I project here, to anyone, are in the ful awareness of the continuous entropy and degradation that is always going on. All these hopes are of perfectly real things. I calculate with the possible end of all our structures. I just operate in the now as it exists, in the knowledge that this reverberates in future conditions. It becomes in a sense “a glorious kind of play”. And I happen to think that only from such play truly good things emerge. Severity and responsibility are required, but nothing without the ‘innocent expanse’, what Nietzsche called overflowing, which does not care for the finitude of the results of itself.
The eternal is at work in every creative act.
This internet of ours is a matter of accessing sources and being a source. It is young, extremely so, and it could be that the source will become denser and richer for a good while. It could even be that the internet will not be shut off, that it becomes an integral part of life on Earth. It’s interesting to me to surf between the lowest and the highest expectations.
When I create explicitly from self-valuing and not only towards it, the fear of futility dissipates.
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03-30-2013, 05:29 AM Post: #25
Fixed Cross Offline
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RE: You may not realize it
James S Saint Wrote:
jabs Wrote:
James, how come you are not in the history books?
The future of history is online.
I’m online.
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04-01-2013, 05:08 AM Post: #26
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RE: You may not realize it
Fixed Cross, thank you for your comments. I agree with everything you wrote.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Natural World Ashes Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:25 pm
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Furnace Language
Let’s destroy words.
Their meaning is false
excess seduction