Petition to unban lys

Even though in that thread about banning her, I had said already that I could care less whether she came back or not, so as far as I am concerned, she can come back though it is not within my power to give that permission - but it really has nothing to do with me - it’s all on Carleas.

But this is my question - what does Lyssa have to say about all of this? Does she even care whether or not she comes back in here and based on her actions in here and breaking the rules, as I also said, no one is indispensable in here except by reason of the biases (for instance) people liking her.

So what does she have to say about it? Will she continue to be Satyr’s mouthpiece? Will she continue to spam HIs MIND as opposed to her own if she does indeed come back or will she post solely from her own mind - inasmuch as any of us can - considering that there isn’t much new under the sun… Oh, how I would love to be a fly on the wall over there right now. I can only imagine how emotionally charged things might be - but of course, I could be completely wrong about that.

Like I said, as far as I’m concerned, she can come back - it’s no skin off my back but I rather feel personally, all things considered, that she might explain herself and what her views are about this and how she will or will not conduct herself – that’s if Carleas even decided to give her another chance.

It’s kind of ludicrous to me to vote if she can care less either way…under the circumstances of it all. So even though I can say yes I won’t clikc the button as of yet. What do you feel about “that”? Does it make no sense to you?

She has been essentially gagged, so I would think that even if she does not come back at all, ILP has a burden to take the gag off.

Gagged by who? Carleas or Satyr?

As this statement stands, what would be the incentive for Carleas to even want to let her back in, if she could care less about coming back and/or decided not to and not stipulate that she wouldn’t break the Rule again?
Under the circumstances, the way I look at it, she would have the burden to make some kind of concession, not Carleas.

I could think of a way for them to communicate and it would be in black and white but if Carleas wasn’t interested in dropping the ban, it wouldn’t make a difference.

Pride always goeth before the fall. Don’t I know that.

Here is a solution : Stop writing about Satyr. If that happens, then she has no reason to be here (among the herd). The ban becomes irrelevant.

As this statement stands, what would be the incentive for Carleas to even want to let her back in…
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To be correct by his own rules and his own set of ideological beliefs.

My point is that lys is correct by her rules, carleass is incorrect by his rules.

Here is something for which there is no scale of grey. Either you have a free society, or you don’t.

phyllo, I didn’t catch your drift here.

But he is being correct by his own rules. Some people are just not seeing it maybe because they don’t want to. Unfortunately, and I may be wrong here, if more people who cared about her could actually see things a bit from his side, they could be more helpful to her instead of enabling her by thinking she’s right and he’s wrong. By his rules as they stand, she DID break them.

lol There isn’t too much bias within that statement, phoneutria.
Well, in that case, Lys maybe would want to set up her own forum and then she could truly BE correct by her rules. She also might come to realize the beauty of certain rules. Even Satyr has some over there doesn’t he?

The fact that there is a particular clause, an Exception, in that excerpt I included in my post to Aussen, in that thread, does show that Carleas is, in fact, not incorrect by his rules or in banning her because of the reasoning set up with that rule.

As I said, I have nothing against her personally as I really do not know her. So if it were up to me, I’d let her back in but the reality IS that by Carleas’ standards, she did break the rule and I am also capable of seeing as a result of that ruling and because of her antics in here,
the intelligence behind them (Carleas’ ruling). Maybe you cannot and others cannot. if I couldn’t see that at all, if I couldn’t “get it”, I could not have gone into that thread and posted anything. I know that things are not always so black and white but sometimes they are if people choose to really see it. I don’t really know Carleas at all or much at all so I am as unbiased where he is concerned as I am where she is concerned. Not so sure you can say the same thing.

I have only this to say here - one needs to be very certain about just how free a society they would want.
That could be different things to different people. It’s funny, but you don’t see all the grey areas and problems within that statement.

Nice talking with you phoneutria. I can understand how you feel though at the same time I’m not sure I can. If someone I liked a lot was banned for whatever reason perhaps I couldn’t be sure how I would react. But then again, loyalty doesn’t mean blindness. I might stay by this person’s side while at the same time helping him or her to understand that in my book, according to how the rules are set up - they were still wrong. Being a friend doesn’t mean being an enabler, phoneutria. You may be being totally honest in your assessment but it doesn’t mean that you are right. You are just seeing with different eyes and perhaps through the eyes of a friend, which is admirable but still not always real.

Lys (and the other KTers) claims that ILP consists of a herd of dumb animals. She does not want to be here. She was only here and re-posting Satyr’s content because Iambiguous was writing about Satyr in the Rant section. She was ‘correcting’ a misrepresentation.

She will leave, if the writing about Satyr stops.

(If she wants to stay, that means that she was not sincere and she actually likes being in the ILP herd.)

Whether or not I or anyone likes or dislikes lys does not matter.
What matters is if you want for people who are only minimally disruptive to be silenced.

Ah, the fallacy of equivocation - using the word ‘equality’ to interchangeably mean ‘equality of opportunity’ and ‘equality of outcome’. It’s too typical and generic of a word-manipulation method used widely and constantly by the modern left. I give 2/10 because of lack of creativity.

At KT all are allowed their voice… they don’t come because they are cowards, look at Zoot, Turd and the other turd. Posturing, declaring and attacking from a distance, not daring to engage directly, face to face.

Unless you can provide a different meaning for the word equality, no.
Where the word has not been constrained to a specific group (whether of opportunity or outcome), you should take the broadest meaning, which is all categories of equality. So not just opportunity and not just outcome, but both and then some.

Phoneutria,

So what you’re saying here is that Satyr doesn’t have such a thick skin, that he couldn’t simply ignore this (although I can in some way understand this) or even invite iambiguous over there to answer to them? He had to send a WOMAN. Oh, Satyr, I am really surprised at you. What kind of a satyr are you anyway? You could have been more resourceful than that.

And I will have to take a look-see to see if indeed Rant was the only place she was being Satyr’s mouthpiece and in reply to Iambiguous. Either way, it doesn’t much matter. The killer goes before the judge and says "But your honor, I only killed him because he said mean things about me. If he didn’t, he would be alive today. Maybe that’s a poor comparison but it still works for me.

She will leave… I think she’s already gone and not of her own volition. Perhaps at some point, her banning will be irrelevant but not at this point, not yet but I may be incorrect in my assessment.

Of course they do. But that doesn’t actually say much does it? Who is it who might be wounded by that statement? lol
We can all at times be a herd of dumb animals but some of us are less of a herd or less of the Borg than are others. Who is it who is to establish who is more so or less so?

I can see the precipice and on either side of it is ilp and Know Thyself. As I said, we can all be dumb animals at times but not at all times and not all of us. I’m not actually excluding myself in that last.

But I think that we have to be very discerning of what herd we follow. Personally, I don’t like being part of any herd, I like to be the dragon that flies above it all or the wolf which goes her own way but being part of a society alas one can’t always be that - unless they enter a cave and become a hermit. But we can decide who we will walk with and agree with.

ah, a herd of dumb animals…

The survival of the fittiest and all that - I wonder - how many have already plunged into the abyss of that precipice.

One wonders about that…
Why would wise men and women care about the opinions of fools?

The reasons for discussing of ILP on KT and KT on ILP escape my understanding.

The only reason that I put my two cents into this thread is because :

1. a solution is relatively simple.
2. this vote puts Carleas into an awkward position and should have been avoided

Enough with all the drama shit. This is a philosophy site, not a soap opera or a stage.

People are unequal. Thus equality of opportunity and equality of outcome are in contradiction, as when there is equal opportunity, equal outcome can only happen if all participants are equal.

People are equal under a democratic rule where it pertains to obedience of rules. Outcome should be the same regardless of who you are. If you break a law, you go to jail. If you disobey a rule, you are banned.

I don’t think you understand what I meant.

Equality of opportunity pertains to law allowing the same freedom, aka, putting equal restrictions on everybody, aka all start the race from the same line and nothing obstructs them from finishing it except their own natural limitations.
Equality of outcome means that, since people are different, they must treated unequally in order to artificially make them equal, aka, you have to put more restrictions on the more competent ones, and artificially elevate the less competent ones - affirmative action would be an example of this.

They are only consistent if you think all people are, literally, equal, as this would mean that if you give equal opportunity to them, they all start from the same line, they will all finish the race the same.

Well I already knew since coming across so many of them but I went back and checked on the archives and Lyssa did post an exhorbitant amount of SATYR says of this and that and not only in rant but in rant not having anything necessarily to do with Iambiguous.
The fact remains that Satyr having been banned, despite what is thought ought to be, should be, could be posted, Lys broke the rule.

But also in Society, Government and Economics, Off Topic, Philosophy, I’m changing my race to African American (don’t recall what that was.
Satyr says this.

A lot of what was posted by her in rant for instance on nihilism had nothing to do with Iambiguous but just being Satyr’s mouthpiece.

I’m not much of a philosopher to speak of but in what way is that philosophy or science or anything? If Satyr is a father figure or surrogate he has to allow his children to grow up and to learn to think for themselves albeit I can see that Lys knows how to use her mind and to think for herslef. But perhaps she needs to learn this in other ways.

I think I’m finished here and there insofar as this Lys thing and her banning is concerned. If I indeed felt that her banning was unfair and unjust, that might make a difference. As it is though, I said my piece and to continue going on like this is just plain stupid in light of the fact that I’ve said all that I, myself and I can.

There are far more interesting places to be and discussions to be had in here.

AD, imagine if I took a thinker you admire, respect and agree with, and misconstrued his positions in order to make them easier to attack, made lies about his personality, and attacked him from where he cannot defend himself.

What would you do?

I voted no, because I can see all the drama happening. I don’t see a point in voting yes when all this drama is created from her.