a new understanding of today, time and space.

Interestingly enough, generation after generation complains how the younger generation simply doesn’t get it.

Interestingly enough, generation after generation complains how the younger generation simply doesn’t get it.

OK, after a couple days of work ( a four letter word to be sure)
I return.

We have many disciplines that humans use to understand human activity,
(in no particular order) we have biology, economics, history, philosophy,
psychology, sociology, politics, to name a few. If we were actually animals,
primates, I don’t think we would need such an array of tools to identify who we
are and what we need. I don’t believe I have seen a chimp with a book which it
needs to identify the various activities of a chimp.
What would a chimp do with a book on economics or politics?
Or cats? I don’t believe I have ever seen my cat have a need to look through
books to find out what is necessary to a cat to learn.

Let us take one branch of our studies and look into it, economics.
We have courses and plenty of books which explain human economic activity.
The role of the money and the role of government in the creation of money.
Let us look into this even further, humans have had 8 economic systems
since the beginning, pop quiz, name the 8. Anyway the most successful
was the first, hunter/ gatherer. that system lasted for most of human history
which dates back over a million years and lasted roughly to 10,000 years ago (give or take)
Those who proclaim capitalism as the best system ever probably don’t even understand
that humans have had 8 economic systems. We have had 8 systems which suggest we can have
more than 8. As technologies change and as resources change, we can very easily change into
one or more economic systems. Would the hominids that existed under the hunter/gatherer
system even begin to understand our current economic system? I seriously doubt it and I doubt
current hominids would understand the economic system that will exist a couple of thousands of
years from now. As we have had plenty of economic systems, we have had plenty of political
systems. Would anyone care to guess the political system of America, one hundred years from now?
I suggest it won’t look anything like todays system. I would suggest that the political and economic
system of one hundred years from now will look vastly different and that is because of actions we
are taking today. This evolution of a country, economic and political and social, is occurring right now,
right here. I have already stated publicly that a civil war is coming to America and the winner
of that civil war will change the course of America. The next civil war will simply be a replay of the
original civil war without the slaves. Expand your vision of the past, present and future.
what is today may not be tomorrow.

Kropotkin

One of the human aspects we study is something called ethics.
What is ethics? It is the study of human behavior and we how we treat
each other. The rules of human behavior can be reduced to such
idea’s such as the golden rule “treat someone as you would be treated by them”.
We have such idea’s as the ten commandments, thou shall not…kill for example
and… thou shall not steal. these rules of ethics have played a considerable role in
the study of ethics and the laws of each country.

Now we have a second idea which is the meaning/purpose of life is the pursuit of happiness.
I believe these two idea in conflict have created a great many issues we face right now.

What if you pursuit of happiness clashes with the rules of behavior as given by “thou
shall not steal”. What if your happiness depends on your stealing someone else’s wife?
You have a conflict between your happiness and thou shall not steal or covet another man’s wife.
How do you resolve this conflict? What is more important, your happiness or the rules?

How would we handle this conflict? We could do one of two things, One: remove rules.
even in an anarchist paradise, we need rules, we just need rules as defined by ourselves
and not an impersonal and far away government. So we cannot remove rules from society,
so we are left with removing the idea that life is the pursuit of happiness.
What else is there, one may ask?

We can remove the idea that life is the pursuit of happiness by understanding what
humans are actually doing. We are part and parcel of life, we are one with the earth
and all its creatures for we are another creature of earth, like lions and tigers and bears, oh my.
That leaves us with evolutionary reasons for our existence and that is simply the perpetuation
and continuation of the species. Like all the other species on earth, we simple exist to
continue the human species. We abide by the evolutionary reason for species existence which
is the continuation of species. It is nothing more complicated than that. We remove any mystical
and false belief in a metaphysical existence. We are of this earth, for this earth and by this earth.
It doesn’t need our happiness for the species to continue on and it doesn’t require some
fanciful metaphysical explanation for our existence. We are simply following evolution. if we
accept this idea, then the rules that we have must change to accommodate this idea that the
reason for existence is simply the perpetuation and continuation of the species. If it is no longer
about our happiness, we no longer need to chase such silly notions such as our pursuit of goods,
I.E the person who dies with the most toys, wins. this notion of gaining materials goods is no longer
true if we understand the purpose of life is not our happiness, but the continuation of the species is
the purpose of life, then the pursuit of materials goods is a damaging and harmful to the real
purpose of life. Ethics as we know it, changes dramatically if we change the purpose of life.

Kropotkin

Everything is connected in space, and across time, every moment is but another moment that is transitory, our atoms are near eternal…

At some point you realize that none of this gets you anywhere, because all you’re doing is trying to excuse yourself for having values and for having the need to assert and act on them singularly, “out of (some) context”. You want go be forgiven for being alive-- sorry, no such luck, that “forgiveness” does not exist (except were it is already lacking).

Realize that much of what passes for philosophy or politics or war is simply a desire to be forgiven a “sin” of existing at all.

Filling your head with many perspectives isn’t philosophy. Philosophy is what you do with the perspectives you’ve got. And this “moral” space exists in an entirely “amoral” context, just like the “unmoved mover”. There is a deep disconnect which cannot be reconciled to those which it divorces from each other and structurally keeps apart; out of that situation arises everything.

If you put down all your conceptual tools and baggage and clutter, for a few moments, and take a quiet free breath, you may begin to see what I’m talking about.

Thinking (as it is being practiced here) is merely an excuse to go to war, and even peace or pacifism or humanism or whatever such view is only a war against war, which inevitably becomes among the most vicious.

I don’t believe in sin and shall be commenting on that, at some point.

Kropotkin

I don’t mean the “belief”.

I have multiple times requested some sort of evidence that god exists.
I have never received anything that would suggest that god exists. I have asked where does god resides
and haven’t gotten anything even remotely close to a coherent answer. He resides in our hearts and
he resides everywhere, are two common answers that mean nothing. but a more important question
is this, why does this feeling we have, of some connection to something beyond us exists?
I would suggest we have mistaken the fact that we are star stuff and connected with the universe
because we are made of the same stuff as the universe and mistaken that connection with some
sort of god. We are connected to the universe but it doesn’t need a god for some explanation, it is
simply we are star stuff and that is our connection with the universe, because everything is made of
star stuff and we are connected to everything. We mistake this connection to the universe with some
sort of silly idea of god. We don’t need an explanation of god to understand our connection to the universe.
In fact, I would suggest that this tie to god has damaged us in a multitude of ways. Damaged us in ways
we don’t even understand. We have come to believe that we are separate from the universe but we are
not because we are the exact same thing as the universe. We get confused by the different forms
but those forms are made of the exact same things, atoms. The atoms connect like Lego blocks and
create different forms like cars, tree’s, bikes, humans, cats, stars and stoves. everything looks different
but is actually created by the same stuff that created us. Lego’s is the best way to describe the universe.
Atoms are the Legos of the universe and everything is made of atoms. What we have Interpreted as a spiritual
meaning to the universe is simply our physical, scientific connection to all the other matter in the universe.
Now some misguided soul will claim this is god incarnate, this connection, but they are wrong. There is no god and no proof of god. The universe and the connections of the universe has no need for god. No need to muddle up
the water with some false claim that there is a god and heaven and hell and angels and demons and guilt and sin.
None of that exists and there is simply no proof of any of it. We have simple mistaken one thing for another.
We are material in a material universe. there is no need to posit anything else.

Kropotkin

It is late and I am waiting for the pills to kick in, so if I start drifting,
you know why.

Ethics. How does my thoughts that we are one with star stuff affect ethics?

Ethics, morality, how do I treat my fellow man?
We are the same, you and I. We are just one more form of material that is atoms.
Treating you badly is the same as treating me badly because we came from the same place,
created by the same forces, atoms doing the same things as Lego’s and rebuilding over and over
again. I cannot treat you badly simply because we are the same. the ocean and the sky and the land,
the same building blocks that made you and me. Atoms being busy with different designs but using
the same matter with the same rules of physics and chemistry and biology that runs through everything
else in our solar system. We have a commonality because we exist from the same matter, the same rules,
the same biology, just slightly different form. To damage you is to damage me is to damage every single
other biological entity in our solar system for we are the same and you can add all the inorganic matter
in our universe which arises from the exact processes that created you and me. the question of ethics
just became a whole lot easier because we are one and the same and only a very silly human, would on
purpose, damage themselves. And the pills are doing their magic, so off to bed I go.

Kropotkin

If you properly understand this idea of how the universe is connected,
then certain matters become clearer. for example, asking what is the meaning
of life? What is the meaning of life is one of the cornerstones of human existence.
We all ask it? I have been asking for over 40 years and still haven’t found the answer/
a answer that works. But why? why is finding an answer to the meaning of life so
hard, indeed impossible. We have roughly 7 billion people on planet earth, ask
all 7 billion people, what is the meaning of life and you are likely to get 7 billion answers
AND ALL 7 BILLION ANSWERS COULD BE WRONG! Why? because how would you decide
you have a right answer? By what means and what criteria would use to decide what is
the correct answer to the question of “what is the meaning of life?” The meaning of life is…
how do you know your answer is right? The meaning of life for me is… you have now narrowed
down the question to one person with no way to check on the answer. By answering with
"the meaning of life for me is… you have taken away any universality of the question thus rending
it irrelevant. I could say the meaning of life is watching reruns of the tv show “bones” and by what
standard would I be right or wrong? There is no way to show the correctness or wrongness for any answer
given to the question, what is the meaning of life?

Kropotkin

Why do you keep posting?

Why do you keep telling us things?
You give us your answers about God, the universe, ethics, etc.
Why?

Typical invalid logic. Not knowing that you are right does not make you wrong.

…no way to show it to YOU. The blind cannot see (I hear that is what makes them blind).

So how does this connectedness of the universe influence other aspects
of our lives. If we are connected with the ocean and the sky (and we are)
then how can we in good conscience pollute the earth, sea and sky? We cannot.
it would be like polluting our living room or our bedroom. Science has confirmed
that we are now in the midst of another extinction event. We are risking our very
existence with this extinction event. the earth is a balancing act with each part
needed the other part to stay balance. If one piece fails, it will cause the other
pieces to fail. This morning we celebrate the United States Supreme court actually
doing the right thing, two days in a row, however let us not forget the basic foundation
of our existence. We are looking at events from a purely human perspective and we
are forgetting that we have to also pay attention to the basics which are survival of
the race events. We are tied up in so much crap, we are forgetting to look around.
We are focused too small and need to widen our focus. Which is why understanding
that we are connected to everything helps. We must learn the wisdom to understand
what is really important. anything Kardashian is not important, understanding who we are,
important. Seeing how we are connected to the universe, important and more importantly,
understanding our connection means we must become active participants in our world.
We must balance our lives. We must become environmentalist and conservers of our world
and we must become forward looking and act upon the past, present and future.
It sounds like a difficult task but what is needed is wisdom. the lesson we need to learn
is when do we act and what action is needed. We must become observant of the universe.
To use Nietzsche’s words, we must learn to dance. Dancing requires a soft touch and
a balance and must have a stretching of both intellect and emotional sides of us.
To dance is to become both aware of our environment and our dancing partner.
We can do this. We can learn when to lead and when to follow, when to adjust our
movement. Our dancing partner…the environment, the universe.
You need to learn how to flow and dance with the universe.

those who don’t or won’t understand me, that is ok. I don’t mind.
I can only deal with what I can deal with. The rest is out of my hands.

Kropotkin

No criteria. No reason to believe that he is right. Yet on he goes. Babble on.

K: If you want my advice, here it is, DON’T READ. Pretty simple. don’t read me.

Kropotkin

Where am I to get my comic relief if I stop reading your posts?

For example, in this thread :

What a difference 10 days makes. :open_mouth:

But maybe it’s another absurd ruling. Maybe it is more personal opinion. :-k

Who knows? Is there any way to know?

PK knows that if he disagrees,then it is an absurd ruling. If PK agrees, then it is doing the right thing.
:banana-dance:

After three very ugly days of work, I am back.

If we are connected as I have stated, then these artificial devices used to separate
people are false. By this, I mean those who artificially divide us into the US vs THEM.
The religious is one such way to artificially divide people. US meaning the religious vs THEM,
atheist or Islamic or other such artificial divide. This US vs THEM is also used in socioeconomic terms
and also in terms of national identity. The deaths of people from other lands and other nations impact
us far less than the deaths of our own nation and yet we are just as connected to people of other lands,
no less than we are connected to our own nations people. Our allegiance has grown as we have evolved.
Once, our only allegiance was to our own family, our tribe, then maybe to the village or the small town,
we lived in. As the years passed we have grown in our allegiance to include our little region, then the state
we lived in and then to the nation we reside in. Over a million years, our vision of whom we hold
allegiance to has grown from the few to the many to the millions. Why not expand that to include
all humans regardless of whether they support the same god we do or dress the same as we do or
hold their allegiance to another political system. We are all humans regardless of the accidental
traits which seem to so large to us. The economic or political or religious belief systems we hold do
not change the basic idea that we are human despite the various belief systems we all hold. We are
connected in a basic and unchangeable fashion regardless of our ideological systems beliefs.
We are separated by beliefs and systems that are changeable. We hold some ideological systems
in high regard and some in low regard and yet no one is chained to any ideological system.
You can go from an Islamic socialist to Christian to atheist to democrat to anything. These ideological
systems are temporary, transitory, changeable to vanishing. But what remains is being human.
Regardless of the temporary political, economic, religious system that people may join, we are still
human. That never changes regardless of the various ideological systems we temporarily belong to.
And that is what we need to hang our hat on, not to the temporary and disposable ideological systems
we might belong to but the fact we are first and foremost, human. That is the tie that binds us together.
We are bound by forces greater than artificial and transitory ideologies. We are bound by life.

Kropotkin

Kropotkin is right on a lot of marks, though. The meaning of life is to live and enjoy living. When people disrespect each other or try to lord over each other unjustly, this becomes difficult. Life is like everything. Some times its a dance, at others its a fight at others its a song or picture and some times its like being lost at sea or stuck in isolation on a deserted island. Some times its not graceful at all. People tend to only scratch the surface and avoid the depths for all that they repressed and shoved down there. They try to avoid confrontation and problems both internally and externally. There is a massive rift between nature and a large chunk of humanity for the very fact that that chunk is purposefully trying to obstruct what is natural through any means necessary just so they can keep playing their games of depravity. This is nature fighting back. It’s a very serious matter and to make fun of it is a poor coping mechanism. Comic relief? This? This shit is genius. Legen-wait for it… Dary.Epic

I do see what youre trying to say, Peter and it is brilliant. 40 years you searched for an answer that I gave effortlessly at only 29 years of age. I am sorry if that offends you but my goals are the same as yours, so I do hope you forgive me. You said that what we do only echoes for a little while in eternity. I have to disagree on that. These moments we craft day by day- all of eternity has been waiting on. We are the spiritual epicenter for all that is. You are beginning to see this and I commend your spirit. I see your pain, brother and what you have endured to procure all this. I raise you a lord of lords and king of kings to say that you are right.

Phred, the question becomes, what now? You have this wisdom, what is next?

Is it enough to understand the world or do you have to change it?

Kropotkin