“Life is a performance and we are but players on its stage…if I read the right article, I believe I have, I would agree first that yoni is humble. At the same time, I believe all people in some kind of authority or “expert” should be humble. The day you think you know everything about anything you fail. I say this, because if you think you have nothing else to learn, you become stagnant…caught up in your own rigid ideals.” –Ken
Yes, Yonathon’s humility is impressive. What is really telling to me is how lacking in humility many of the trolls can be that I have encountered on these boards who claim to have the authority that Yoni has proof of. I had always suspected, when confronted with such, that this was the case and that I had every reason to question their authority based on their lack of humility: their desire to turn it all into a pissing contest. I had always suspected them to be wannabes compensating for their lack through aggression. Yoni kind of added a little foundation to my assumption.
(And I should note here that I am mainly talking in terms of the past since the boards have done an effective job of eliminating the problem. While I have watched trolls turn the Yahoo and MySpace boards into wastelands, I’m not seeing so much of that these days. Roger???)
Unfortunately, he seems to have given up on me either out of lack of time (he had, after all, just published one of his first articles which likely wetted his taste for more (or frustration as I am older and a little more set in my ways. I’m open to new ideas, but can be a little stubborn in holding my own. Either way, I was flattered and appreciated his taking out the time out to go with me as far as he did and I look forward to further articles from him.
“I also agree that the use of “you” is often perceived as an affront directed at the individual the text is about, when often then not, “you” is used as a broader term meaning not the speaker or writer. In an ideal world, all would be understood in language and translation, unfortunately this is not true.”
The thing here, Ken, is that I was comparing experiences on the boards in which the second person perspective can lead to schoolyard brawls to the third person perspective of people writing books and articles in which they can keep it a little cooler and articulate through third person detachment. It’s not a guarantee against mean spiritedness (as Rand’s Virtue of Selfishness obviously demonstrates (I tried to read it, but got so nauseous by about the third essay, I had to put it down (but it gives the addressor a little more space to think before they assert.
But I agree: the second person perspective is a mixed package in being so personal. Saying “love ya, man!” is a lot more powerful, performance-wise, than “I love that person”. However, in situations of disagreement, it can get personal: “Fuck you: you fucking prick!!!” But once again: the third person perspective is not a guarantee:
“Fuck that fucking prick!!!”
Sometimes, anger can overwhelm the distance that the 3rd person perspective allows us. All it can be is a cushion.
“I personally believe that is why philosophers and also scientists (for what is philosophy, but the science of thought) use eloquent or what my less educated friends call “big words”. There is less misinterpretation if you use a word that means, usually, the same thing no matter how it is read. Less eloquent vocabulary will get confused because they rely on more than just the word itself (ie, when speaking, you have body language, tone, and so on). This makes me think of the first “hard” book I ever read. It was called Foucault’s Pendulum. I believe it was translated from Italian. I was maybe 17 and I had to read the book with a dictionary. Then I asked myself and then the person that recommended it why the words were so hard to grasp. I was told about it being translated. The reason I bring this up is because, again, the use of eloquent vocabulary leaves less room for misinterpretation. No matter what, though, there is always something lost in translation…even if it’s just translating the thought process you have into words.”
First of all, I could just Google this, but have to test myself: is Foucault’s Pendulum Umberto Eco’s?
That asked, I agree with you: the reason philosophers turn to such Latin-ate terms (the “big words” as you call them (is for precision and concision. The problem is that these terms never stay stable in time. They evolve like any word does and pick up different associations along the way for more than one person. Therefore, as I believe Yoni was getting at, via Derrida, these terms for any individual always ride on an infinite network of association: diffe̕rrance. And I would respectfully counter your point:
“The reason I bring this up is because, again, the use of eloquent vocabulary leaves less room for misinterpretation.”
With a point I made to Yoni:
“I’m thinking here of Lacan’s point that language is like an attorney that represents us to the attorney (the language (of the other. Even though, as I would still argue, language is an agreement, it is not an homogeneous one. It is rather heterogeneous in the way a language can arrive at slight variations of agreements in the various circumstances it can find itself being practiced in (ex. Ebonics. And this can go down to the individual themselves in their own individual context. This is how two individuals can actually be in agreement yet can still find themselves in a debate –sometimes to the point of hostility.”
But then you more or less suggested this with:
“No matter what, though, there is always something lost in translation…even if it’s just translating the thought process you have into words.”
But I would implore you not to take this self deconstruction (actually, as I would spell it, d.construction (as a weakness in your process. Take it, rather, as a sign of integrity.