Becoming a rune dancing priestess

“Who, by thinking, can add one cubit to his stature?”–Jesus. Sympathetic magic is an attempt to outthink the fates.

You noted it well. Fundie magical thinking is immature. I think all people will be judged according to their level of spiritual maturity. There are lesser and greater in the kingdom of heaven. However, I think we have digressed somewhat from the OP.
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we haven’t digressed…the problem at this point is maia is not here now…

we haven’t digressed…the problem at this point is maia is not here now…
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I’m here. The thing is that magic works, so these debates about “spiritual maturity” and so on are really missing the point. They are like trying to disprove the existence of electricity by theology.

I’m here. The thing is that magic works, so these debates about “spiritual maturity” and so on are really missing the point. They are like trying to disprove the existence of electricity by theology.
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maia–I am sorry… I did not write about fundie magical thinking…I am with you and not arguing about what you say…it seems to work for you…it is not immature…many so-called mature people can make awful mistakes…we are all immature…we have no idea about the big questions…can you explain more about your beliefs…some peop[le have trouble just listening to other views…what about the electricity…how does it work…I want to know

maia–I am sorry… I did not write about fundie magical thinking…I am with you and not arguing about what you say…it seems to work for you…it is not immature…many so-called mature people can make awful mistakes…we are all immature…we have no idea about the big questions…can you explain more about your beliefs…some peop[le have trouble just listening to other views…what about the electricity…how does it work…I want to know
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It’s a very big subject, too big to do it justice in a single post. I started a thread on it over a year ago, which became quite long.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=181696

maia----what are the problems with paganism as you see it…I can see a lot of problems with theism and atheism…

The main problem, I would say, is its factionalism. Its diversity is both its strength and a cause of weakness. Yet for all their arguments and disputes, Pagans always work together and never seek to slaughter each other as factions of monotheists do, with differences so minor as to appear non-existent to outsiders.

that sounds pretty good…are they like quakers…no war

Not really. Some Pagans are pacifists, others will fight for what they believe to be right.

turtle wrote
that sounds pretty good…are they like quakers…no war
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maia wrote
Not really. Some Pagans are pacifists, others will fight for what they believe to be right.
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turtle wrote
thanks maia…

“Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediment.”–WS

Apologies if I seem disrespectful. I simply don’t see how sympathetic magic, the religion of our distant ancestors, speaks to us today. I do see it in the practices of fundy, Christian churches. In that respect it is religion or infant spirituality. Wicca has given us no prophets such as Jesus, Buddha, Confucius. And. sympathetic magic smacks of self-centered beliefs. It says little of caritas or agape.

Sympathetic magic never Went away, but it was certainly suppressed and anything that smacked of paganism was supressed, until recently in horrible violent ways, now mainly through shaming and social violence. But it was Always present even in Europé, though people had to be careful. Wicca has not had a prophet, sure. Though wicca is a fairly recent reformulation of various pagan ideas and followed by small Groups in predominantly Christian areas. And since proselytizing and saving people is not at all like in Christianity, it is hard to see how they will become huge. But here’s the thing, paganism does not sit well with modern empires - modern meaning going back a thousand years or so. It is more tribal and also tend to be connected to specific pieces of land and nothing as huge as say, France. Jesus’ religion fit very well with the Powers that be. He basically said that the secular Powers, even if they are jerks, should not be challenged, since the real Kingdom is in heaven. That is not the way pagans would view it. Confucious was not a prophet. The Buddha also developed a system that generally fit well with secular Power and the state and despots, etc. The popularity of a prophet does not mean that that prophet is better than Another one. Or Adam Smith and Bill Gates would be the greatest prophets. And the religions that came out of Abrahamic prophets have made it hell on Earth for anyone who did not Believe as they did.

some good ideas Moreno…one thing I wanted to comment on…jesus did go against some group that had power and authority…otherwise he would not have been killed…

I think we all understand that by prophet I meant the voice of the major religions. And I tried to make it clear that religion is immature spirituality. It can lead to something more. So what does paganism lead to? Does it teach us how to love and respect one another? Or is it simply a reaction against the excesses of other religions?

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The Pagan worldview most certainly leads to love and respect for each other. This is not handed down from on high as something you must do, however. It just comes naturally.

“I could never believe in a God that doesn’t know how to dance”

  • Nietzsche

I’d almost say magic isn’t complete without the dimension of dance.

Ancient Hebrews worshiped with music and dance.

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