## men and women

For discussions of culture, politics, economics, sociology, law, business and any other topic that falls under the social science remit.

### Re: men and women

gib wrote:
Drusuz wrote:Athenians back in classical Greece locked up women as house slaves, only time they went out, was to the market, they did fine.

They did fine?!?! Try asking them that.

You guys say this shit to women when you're trying to pick them up?
Instead of spewing random stuff out, please try do as philosophers should, and argue through logic and reason, not like a puerile kid with non argumentative 1 liners.
All statemens must be within logic and reason!
Drusuz
Thinker

Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:52 pm
Location: Denmark

### Re: men and women

Drusuz wrote:Instead of spewing random stuff out, please try do as philosophers should, and argue through logic and reason, not like a puerile kid with non argumentative 1 liners.

You first.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
- unknown source

Men must be taught as if you taught them not. And things unknown proposed as things forgot.
- Alexander Pope

Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
- Boston Transcript

gib
resident exorcist

Posts: 8771
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:25 pm

### Re: men and women

yes, and ?..... The slaves were treated as valuable members of the household, even raised into positions of distinction such as teachers or household maids. They had no problem with slavery.They we'rent infected with the Judeo-Christian virus back then.

Moreno wrote:Or perhaps it would bother you if I point out that homosexuality between older men and younger men, even boys, was also quite accepted even venerated in parts of Greece.

Weren't those lifestyles reserved for a small sect in society? namely the aristocrats?
Getting it up the ass seems to be something you are proud of & may think of it as the pinnacle of human progress. Decadence always results in these displays of decay and the practice of penetration, never practiced, was considered by the Greeks an insult.Those who enjoyed it were referred to as "malakos" or soft. But if you wish to justify your new age lifestyle by finding ancient roots, then look no further than nature, where male to male mock penetration is used to symbolize domination.

Despite things told and written even in universities that homosexuality & pedophilia were not only sanctioned but a normal practice is PROVEN FALSE BY THE ATTIC LAWS. Κιναδος δηλ. ο κινων την αιδω Liddel-Scott τομος ΙΙ σελιδα 719 Κιναιδεια,homosexuality= η παρα φυσιν ασελγεια(animal lust,abuse),﻿ Αισχινης 18,29 Δημητριος Φαληρευς 97. Κιναιδευομαι= ειμαι κιναιδος Κιναιδος,homosexual= ο καταπυγων(degenerate,One who has anal sex) , ο καθολα αισχρος (all shameful, dishonorable), κακοηθης ανθρωπος (immoral person)

Moreno wrote:Does this mean we should adopt slavery

Slavery is just another method of farming, in this case farming humans. I know you've been programmed, and it suits your feeble psyche to think of these as "evil" or "bad", but they are natural. Every great civilization the world has ever seen is about war, and competition over resources. Humans are a resources too. You must believe in the myth of the noble savage, breeding men who are effeminate peace lovers is a sign of decline.

Moreno wrote:I know a good forum for you.....
http://knowthyself.forumotion.net/

Let me suggest one for you : http://mlpforums.com/

You are as simple as they come. Don't bother responding, put me in your ignore list. Your simplicity is irritating me.
Mankind? Mankind is an abstraction. There have always been, is, and always will be, Men and only Men - Goethe

chandaashoka

Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:14 am

### Re: men and women

chandaashoka wrote:yes, and ?..... The slaves were treated as valuable members of the household, even raised into positions of distinction such as teachers or household maids. They had no problem with slavery.They we'rent infected with the Judeo-Christian virus back then.
You have a rather romantic vision of how slaves were generally treated. But then, I was posing that question to the other person, who may or may not be so positive about slavery as you are. Perhaps he does not respect any of the countries today that treat women they way he says Greeks did. Perhaps he will not have your reactions. And then also his views of certain kinds of thinking would seem to make him highly critical of cultures that treat women in the way he thinks is fine. I have a sense of his opinions on a number of issues and my response was keyed into that. Imagine. But you seem to think that your reactions to my points relevent, but not the ones I directed at you.

Moreno wrote:I know a good forum for you.....
http://knowthyself.forumotion.net/

Let me suggest one for you : http://mlpforums.com/

You are as simple as they come. Don't bother responding, put me in your ignore list. Your simplicity is irritating me.
Either you know of knowthyself and you are one of satyr's little disciples or the man himself or not. Either way it was a right on peg and not remotely an insult. Maybe in your world if you disagree with someone everything you direct at that person from then on is an insult or act of aggression. That was a good faith recommendation. I suspect you are already a member there, but if not you would probably have appreciated the referral. Your loss and limited view of human interactions.
Last edited by Moreno on Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

Moreno
ILP Legend

Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:46 pm

### Re: men and women

Drusuz wrote:
gib wrote:
Drusuz wrote:Athenians back in classical Greece locked up women as house slaves, only time they went out, was to the market, they did fine.

They did fine?!?! Try asking them that.

You guys say this shit to women when you're trying to pick them up?
Instead of spewing random stuff out, please try do as philosophers should, and argue through logic and reason, not like a puerile kid with non argumentative 1 liners.
There is such an incredibly ironic lack of self-awareness implicit in this post I am actually utterly amazed.

Gib, I am looking at you, mouth open, shaking my head. How could he not know?

Moreno
ILP Legend

Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:46 pm

### Re: men and women

^^ as far as i know Athenian women attended religious festivals and so did go out sometimes. Equally the men were often away for years so who would keep them in check? I expect also that they were allowed to visit relatives and clean washing outside etc etc. Perhaps they were treated a bit like some strict muslim wives are today, and like them perhaps they ‘dont mind’ the sense of security that comes with that, and don’t know any different. Spartan women had it best.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

It is interesting to me that gene tests on people from Iceland showed a predominantly Celtic trend for females and Germanic [Norse] for males. This probably due to those Vikings raiding Scotland a lot and taking the women off with them.

Point being that men and women can be as different as races may be. That is one end of the spectrum, and naturally there are examples which show the opposite end e.g. people born with both genitals or the opposite sexuality to gender.

What then is equality?

That a mother is treated as if she is unemployed because she doesn’t have a ‘job’? Surely equality should give relative freedoms per gender? And not necessarily ‘equal’ freedoms in the sense of being treated as if we are the same?
The truth is naked,
Once it is written it is lost.
Genius is the result of the entire product of man.
The cosmic insignificance of humanity, shows the cosmic insignificance of a universe without humanity.
the fully painted picture, reveals an empty canvas

Amorphos
ILP Legend

Posts: 7052
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:49 pm
Location: infinity

### Re: men and women

Pandora wrote:I never quite underatood the idea that men and women are supposed to be equal and the same in all areas. Men want to be men and women (most) want to ne women. When a woman wants to be like a man it undermines a man's identity, and when a man is overly feminine (metrosexual), it undermines a woman's identity (this is considering that men want to be men in relation to women and vice-versa, which I think still holds true for the majority of population). The hype with gender reversal I think is overblown a bit. These a basic/natural psychological attributes of men and women, and without constant and continuous societal pressure for gender equalization/homogenization, the roles would simply revert back to their natual, balanced state. I also don't believe the idea that to have men in power would automatically lead to subjugation of women, as if men and women are some kind of enemies. Women take care of men, and men take care of women.

The natural difference comes from women being more perfect than men and for that reason having no reason to develop them selves. Thus their obedience is natural.

The modern equalization comes from hungry plebeians called Failures, who want power at any price. They come at the top of the societies generally after two huge wars: two Persian, two Punic and two world wars, where many of them were involved and from where on they claim "honor" for the masses. There always democracy prevails and the hunt for \$ begins at the cost of the rich.

I like how you write. You have a potential to grow.
Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
Historyboy
Thinker

Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:16 am

### Re: men and women

what common ground do men and women have.....how about cooperation instead of competition...
turtle
ILP Legend

Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

### Re: men and women

What cooperation, except gender roles, could be employed on a massive scale?
What cooperation if everything believes in "progress" and "empirism"?

Those modern people are so quick in denying everything traditional that it looks like they want to deny their own existence.

This is called nihilism. And in fact it could be that all life is written down in our genes as a traditional library.

So, how could crazy dying people be brought back into living again? It looks like only the dumbest survives, because intelligence has become unnatural and perverted.
Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
Historyboy
Thinker

Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:16 am

### Re: men and women

Historyboy wrote:What cooperation, except gender roles, could be employed on a massive scale?
What cooperation if everything believes in "progress" and "empirism"?

Those modern people are so quick in denying everything traditional that it looks like they want to deny their own existence.

This is called nihilism. And in fact it could be that all life is written down in our genes as a traditional library.

So, how could crazy dying people be brought back into living again? It looks like only the dumbest survives, because intelligence has become unnatural and perverted.

hboy----you may be someone who would make a difference....not everyone is a fool....
turtle
ILP Legend

Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

### Re: men and women

According to K.G. Zumpt, only fools may survive: it is historically proven that in ancient Rome, at the peak of it's size, people were dying out there where culture was and multiplying in huge numbers there where dumb superstitious people were living: Asia Minor and Egypt. I think it is easier to find a willing, dumb, woman for a dumb man, than a dumb woman for a smart man. They simply aren't soulmates.

Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
Historyboy
Thinker

Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:16 am

### Re: men and women

I'd say this thread has been completely usurped and is turning into various rants by people unwilling to admit they might have a reading comprehension problem.
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
— Lewis Carroll
lizbethrose
Philosopher

Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:55 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

### Re: men and women

lizbethrose wrote:I'd say this thread has been completely usurped and is turning into various rants by people unwilling to admit they might have a reading comprehension problem.

i agree liz....some people just want to tear down....they think they are cute...i see a lot of that...
turtle
ILP Legend

Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

### Re: men and women

Turtles are lonely without a turtle-religion. It they could at least have a holy turtly book, how proud would they be on their culture! But now it is all too much knowledge without a common round.

What is Thus spoke Zarathustra if not a Holy Book, a common ground for a future culture? A Holy Book without religion, with culture?

You don't like my common ground?
Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
Historyboy
Thinker

Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:16 am

### Re: men and women

Historyboy wrote:Turtles are lonely without a turtle-religion. It they could at least have a holy turtly book, how proud would they be on their culture! But now it is all too much knowledge without a common round.

What is Thus spoke Zarathustra if not a Holy Book, a common ground for a future culture? A Holy Book without religion, with culture?

You don't like my common ground?

Well. . . I could say your ground is very common or I could say your ground is very Common. Either way works for me.
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
— Lewis Carroll
lizbethrose
Philosopher

Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:55 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

### Re: men and women

Com on, you are married, what is your common ground with your husband?

Lasaulx has described how religions raise and perish. I think it is long over with Christianity as religion - it has become a morality. A socialism. Who wants to be Christian, he just needs to remain a feminist.

While, who wants something other than an extreme individualism, i.e. feminism, he needs to create a new ... holy book. And that is the purpose why TSZ was created, to mark a new beginning of a new culture (like Homer's works were a new beginning of a new culture).

A culture does not need a religion to rule over her. Religion is the way into status quo, and culture is the way into status evolution.

So, without religion, there is no priest and there is no gender equality in religion. (women are very good in status quo)

If a woman needs unconditionally to be a pope, then she can retire immediately as a pope, because that is now the new religion: retirement of the tired.
Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
Historyboy
Thinker

Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:16 am

### Re: men and women

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delusions-Gende ... 1848312202

a vehement attack on the latest pseudo-scientific claims about the differences between the sexes - with the scientific evidence to back it up. Sex discrimination is supposedly a distant memory. Yet popular books, magazines and even scientific articles increasingly defend inequalities by citing immutable biological differences between the male and female brain. Why are there so few women in science and engineering, so few men in the laundry room? Well, they say, it's our brains.

Hobbes Choice
Philosopher

Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:00 pm

### Re: men and women

Hobbes Choice wrote:http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delusions-Gender-Science-Behind-Differences/dp/1848312202

a vehement attack on the latest pseudo-scientific claims about the differences between the sexes - with the scientific evidence to back it up. Sex discrimination is supposedly a distant memory. Yet popular books, magazines and even scientific articles increasingly defend inequalities by citing immutable biological differences between the male and female brain. Why are there so few women in science and engineering, so few men in the laundry room? Well, they say, it's our brains.

who really knows at this point....of great importance is marriage between two people ....both want different things...both want their way...and both think they are right.....that can give you ???????
turtle
ILP Legend

Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

### Re: men and women

Fixed Cross wrote:"The problem with trying to define human nature is that somebody's bound to be offended."

Homo Sapiens (hohmo sahpeeins)

• Easily offended species of Ape
• Paranoid Hominid
• Self-aware primate
• Sinner
• King-murderer
• Conspiracy-theorist
• Earthbound dolphin
• ?
• ??
• ???

No bounce?
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides

Before the Light - Tree of Life Academy - Thought of a Rune (film by Pezer)

Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper

Posts: 7887
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Previous