Math Fun

For discussing anything related to physics, biology, chemistry, mathematics, and their practical applications.

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Re: Math Fun

Postby Silhouette » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:54 pm

phyllo wrote:Really?
Is the number, the guru says, some secret code which allows them to skip days?

It's a "secret code" in that it's able to give extra information to the blue-eyed islanders under special key circumstances in the deductive process, even though at other points it just seems obvious to anyone.

And yes, the amount of islanders she refers to makes a difference that could skip days. Consider:
If she said she saw 100 blue eyed islanders, each blue would see 99 and deduce the 100th must be themselves. They all leave at the first opportunity. Each brown would already see 100 blues and think that no more information was added to what they could already see AND deduce.

If she said she saw 99 blues, and there were only 99 blues, they would leave by the same logic.
If she said she saw 99 blues, and there were 100 blues, each blue would be waiting for the 99 that they see to leave on the first day. They don't because they're all expecting others to leave and not themselves. They would each have deduced that there were either the 99 blues that they could see, or that there were 100 and each of them were the 100th after the 99 they each counted. Therefore since it's not the former, known and tested after the first day, they all leave on the 2nd.
If she said 98 and there were 100, the same logic continues in the way we should be used to by now. She can say any number and make it solvable, just as long as the number is less than or equal to the actual total amount of islanders with the eye colour mentioned by the Guru, and as long as the number is 1 or more. The same logic goes, it just makes the process either faster or slower.

The critical things to note are that the Guru's information conflicts with what is known just from looking at some point in the deductive process, and that the process MUST only consider what is definitely known for sure, and deductively exploring SOLELY within those confines in order to avoid risky assumptions like the alternative attempts mentioned so far, and that no information is taken out of context, such as the information known by 100 blues being used to deduce about what would happen if there were 1 blue knowing only what 1 blue would know. Once you get all these things, you should be home free to accepting the correct solution. Well done if you can, this is apparently very hard to do for some.
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:58 am

Carleas wrote:If the guru said "I see 97 with blue eyes", it would work.
If she said "I see 50 with blue eyes" it would work.
If she said "I see 01 with blue eyes" it would work.

If everyone just picked a number out of thin air, even if they all happened to pick the same number, it would not work.

Really?
Then you should be able to give such an example (as requested pages ago).
Please tell us one number between 0 and 99 such that "even if everyone picked that same number", it would still not work to allow them to discover their actual eye color.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Math Fun

Postby Carleas » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:51 pm

James, I gave you an example (pages ago): any number between 0 and 99. Take 98 because it's easy to work with: if every islander magicallyhad 98 in their head, they would be able to conclude exactly nothing about their eye color from it, no matter how many days elapsed.

There is no deductive process between "I have number 98 in my head" and "I have blue eyes". The only way any deduction happens is if the number means something, and they know it means something.
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:36 pm

So just like Eugene, you are going to continue to feign ignorance, avoid questions, deny the obvious, and play every kind of semantic and rhetoric game you can come up with in order to sell your story. You couldn't care less what is or isn't true. You are just hell bound to sell that story at all cost. And all under the guise of philosophy and in this case even "logic".

And just what is your story? Well, "the truth is that 200 master logicians cannot know anything of truth until a guru, a woman no less, tells them what she thinks".

It reminds me of the Catholic priest telling me how Jesus actually had very little to do with early Christianity until the first millennium when they, the Vatican, decided to prop up a male figure so as to gain more acceptance of Mary's dominion. Before that Mary was the only significant figure. That is what they are teaching the nuns too (as reported by some nuns).

Yeah, you logical men are hopeless without the guidance of a woman and a guru.

Well, that is your story, like TEW is Eugene's. But the truth is that the truth is greater than your stories. And I'm not buying your stories. As you discovered on that relativity thread, I let the logic of the lack of alternatives dictate the story of truth, not guru's, wishful thinking, or women.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby phyllo » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:41 pm

And yes, the amount of islanders she refers to makes a difference that could skip days. Consider:
If she said she saw 100 blue eyed islanders, each blue would see 99 and deduce the 100th must be themselves. They all leave at the first opportunity. Each brown would already see 100 blues and think that no more information was added to what they could already see AND deduce.
I see that saying she saw 100 blues would give them some useful information. But the idea that they would start counting from 10 (if she said she saw 10) seems even more weird than the original. :D
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Re: Math Fun

Postby Carleas » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:18 pm

James, I am arguing in good faith. When I believe that I am wrong, I admit it. I don't believe that I am wrong here, and I have offered 10+ pages of argument in attempt to prove it.

Aren't you sometimes wrong, James?
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Re: Math Fun

Postby Silhouette » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:48 pm

Silhouette wrote:...yet being met only by distraction, diversion and accusation.

And now it's women. In case anyone's in doubt, the correct solution works just as well with a male Guru.

phyllo wrote:I see that saying she saw 100 blues would give them some useful information. But the idea that they would start counting from 10 (if she said she saw 10) seems even more weird than the original. :D

Are you contrasting the "weirdness" of starting counting from 10 with the "usefulness" of the Guru saying she saw 100 blues - as though the two must be incompatible?
Hopefully you are appreciating and enjoying the superficial "weirdness" as well as seeing the sense in it. If not, would you like me to extend the logic a bit further, that I initially began with only 100 and 99 as example numbers of blues that the Guru could say that she (or he!) sees in order to shorten the time period between her words and the exodus?
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:48 pm

Carleas, did you forget to whom you are claiming that you admit when you're wrong?
Am I supposed to compare your 3 post argument 5 years ago with your 800 post argument with me just 2 years ago, wherein, using these same tactics, you never once admitted that you were wrong about anything, but merely bailed out once nailed such that even you couldn't wriggle out of it. You aren't identical to FJ, but close.. over focused on your own pitch.
..compared to me admitting that I was mistaken (even better than saying that the other guy is right) only a few posts and pages ago (which of course FJ took to the predicted false extreme).

I don't believe your "good faith" story... either.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby phyllo » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:36 pm

Hopefully you are appreciating and enjoying the superficial "weirdness" as well as seeing the sense in it. If not, would you like me to extend the logic a bit further, that I initially began with only 100 and 99 as example numbers of blues that the Guru could say that she (or he!) sees in order to shorten the time period between her words and the exodus?
The weirdness is in the number of blues identified and how it seems to allow them to skip ahead. What is that information?
It seems possible for the guru to say that she sees no blues and they would start counting from zero. :D
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:40 pm

If the not so perfect logicians are focused on and only know of that one canonized solution, what the guru would be providing is the escape from their mental blindness by letting them complete the syllogism. The guru could pick any number and that is where the syllogism would begin the count... except "zero". 8)
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby phyllo » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:05 pm

Why not zero? Can't they figure out that she is lying?
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:07 pm

phyllo wrote:Why not zero? Can't they figure out that she is lying?

Like I said, "not so perfect logicians".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby Carleas » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:37 pm

phyllo wrote:It seems possible for the guru to say that she sees no blues and they would start counting from zero. :D

Because if it's zero, they don't learn anything when no one leaves. Take the example where there is 1 islander with blue eyes. Guru says "I see 0 islanders with blue eyes". He doesn't learn anything, and doesn't leave. Now take the case of 2 islanders with blue eyes. Each sees the other, knows that the guru is lying, but doesn't know that the blue eyed islander they can see knows that she's lying. It is possible that they have brown eyes, and thus that the blue eyed islander they see sees no blue eyes and believes the guru. Even though they know the guru is lying, it doesn't create the kind of common knowledge necessary to induce their own eye color.

The reason the guru can say any number greater than zero and it will work from that number is that, if there were only that number islanders with blue eyes, they would leave on the first day. If she said 10, 10 blue eyed islanders would leave the first day. 11 would learn when 10 didn't leave that they too have blue eyes, and would leave on the second day. 12 would learn when 11 didn't leave, etc.

It's not just a matter of all agreeing on the same number and counting, but that the guru tells them something about the number: if there were only this many of you, they would leave on the first day, i.e. that they would know their eye color on the first day. That allows for the nested hypothetical of what the others know that the others know that the others know ... to bottom out at the number the guru says. If it didn't bottom out, it would get to zero and no one would leave. But it can bottom out at any number. If the guru says "I see 10 with blue eyes", they know on day 1 what they wouldn't learn until day 10 in the case where the guru says "I see 1 with blue eyes": that there are at least 10 islanders with blue eyes.


James S Saint wrote:your 800 post argument with me just 2 years ago, wherein, using these same tactics, you never once admitted that you were wrong about anything, but merely bailed out once nailed such that even you couldn't wriggle out of it.

The argument in which I defended the accepted understanding of special relativity against your attempt to disprove it? Of course the only explanation for why I refused to admit that I (and Einstein) were wrong about special relativity was that my fragile ego. What other explanation could there be...
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:54 pm

Carleas wrote:It's not just a matter of all agreeing on the same number and counting

That is exactly what it is.

Carleas wrote:Of course the only explanation for why I refused to admit that I (and Einstein) were wrong about special relativity was that my fragile ego. What other explanation could there be...

The issue was that you were misusing the math and it was proven that you were (several times). It had nothing to do with Einstein. So yeah, that "fragile ego" thing is highly suspect... and even now still seems to be.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:50 am

And btw, believe or not, this puzzle is directly related to all of the false flag terrorism (take over) going on throughout America.
It's all about what any one person can do by expecting behavior from others... "nothing".
And if he guesses wrong, he gets taken/voted off the "island".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby Carleas » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:55 am

Carleas wrote:It's not just a matter of all agreeing on the same number and counting

James S Saint wrote:That is exactly what it is.

I contend that you do not understand the canonical solution.
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:29 pm

Carleas wrote:I contend that you do not understand the canonical solution.

And I contend that you understand nothing else.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby Carleas » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:41 am

OK, let me return to the course, and try to explain why the number by itself is not enough.

I'll include the guru, but instead of her saying "I see X blue eyes", she'll say "X". That way, there's no uncertainty about what number everyone is using, nor debate about whether a group of perfect logicians can know which of 100 numbers it's the most logical to start with.

For whatever number X is, suppose there are X+1 people with a certain eye color. Now, if they knew, "there are at least X people with blue eyes," they would leave on day 2 because they would see that the X people with blues eyes that they see haven't left, and would reason that theirs must be the other set of blue eyes.

But in this case, they don't. They know that the guru said "X" and that everyone else heard her say "X", but they don't have any knowledge attached to X. There is no chain of reasoning that gets them anywhere on day 2. They might notice that X happens to be the number of blue eyes that they see, but is that because there are exactly X blue eyes? There's no inconsistency in assuming that X is just the number that came up on the dice she rolled; coincidence is insufficient to support a logical inference. They might even assume that she meant that there were at least X blue eyes, but they wouldn't arrive at knowledge simpliciter, but knowledge assuming A. The conclusion of any syllogism would be burdened with that assumption.

Since X+1 wouldn't work, X+2 wouldn't either. If X is given as the number of blue eyes, the blue eyed islanders would expect the X+1 islanders they can see with blue eyes to leave on day 2. Since they don't know anything about X, only that it is the number the guru said for no stated reason, they can't start the logical process that gets them to their eye color. So no one else can found any other logical process on the fact that they failed to deduce their eye color: there's nothing to be deduced from what they can see and the number X, so there's nothing to be deduced from what they can see, the number X, and the failure of others to deduce anything from what they can see and the number X.

The same is true for any Y, X+Y: nothing can be deduced from X that will lead X+Y people to their eye color.

Make a syllogism if you disagree. Label each given with a letter, add some number as a given, and show a deductive logical process that leads to a conclusion like "my eyes are [some color]".
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:18 am

This all seems to be a pointless exercise, primarily because I can't make sense out of what you have written and in addition to the fact that you seem to fear anything being right other than the canonical solution.

And why don't you just state a specific number that wouldn't work for them and show how it would fail??

Carleas wrote:OK, let me return to the course, and try to explain why the number by itself is not enough.

Already a losing proposition, but...

Carleas wrote:I'll include the guru, but instead of her saying "I see X blue eyes", she'll say "X". That way, there's no uncertainty about what number everyone is using, nor debate about whether a group of perfect logicians can know which of 100 numbers it's [is?] the most logical to start with.

The the guru is going to say an actual number, right? Not literally "X"?

Carleas wrote:For whatever number X is, suppose there are X+1 people with a certain eye color. Now, if they knew, "there are at least X people with blue eyes," they would leave on day 2 because they would see that the X people with blues eyes that they see haven't left, and would reason that theirs must be the other set of blue eyes.

Okay. So for example if there had been 100 and the guru said "I see 99". After the 1st day the 100th would realize that he must be the 100th.

Carleas wrote:But in this case, they don't. They know that the guru said "X" and that everyone else heard her say "X", but they don't have any knowledge attached to X.

That's where you lost me. "They don't" - what??
And in what case??
What "knowledge attached to X"??

Carleas wrote:There is no chain of reasoning that gets them anywhere on day 2.

???
How can X be an actual number and them not be able to deduce from it in the same way as always?

Carleas wrote: They might notice that X happens to be the number of blue eyes that they see, but is that because there are exactly X blue eyes? There's no inconsistency in assuming that X is just the number that came up on the dice she rolled; coincidence is insufficient to support a logical inference. They might even assume that she meant that there were at least X blue eyes, but they wouldn't arrive at knowledge simpliciter, but knowledge assuming A. The conclusion of any syllogism would be burdened with that assumption.

Again, not seeming to make sense.
If X happens to be the total number of blues on the island, all of the blues instantly know it.
Each of the blues would see 1 less than the guru said and deduce themselves to be the last.
They leave the 1st day. The rest stay.

The rest seems to be contingent on the prior reasoning, so isn't making any sense either.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:08 pm

This is a clowns show. Sil is clearly defeated, FJ never was seriously engaging, Carleas seems to think it's not credible to have a position that he finds difficult to challenge. Phyllo seems to side with James, which means that he's seeing the utter bullshit of the other arguments.

Carleas and FJ think that the intellect gains credibility by looking away, becoming frustrated, and ignoring whole strings of argumentation.

I've admitted being wrong thrice in this thread, never had certainly until I saw there was absolutely no other way of thinking about this problem except to step beyond to stupid guru-trick, which is a heinously clever fools-bait, nothing to do with logic whatsoever.

I first thought it produced a necessary bias. Now I see it's unnecessary bias. The thing works easily with 4 blues and 4 browns, all get off the island without the guru. If we accept the wait-a-day scheme on which the canonical solution relies and which contradicts the puzzle's explanation.

Since James was a couple of steps ahead of me all the time (which I didn't admit until I tried the scheme with both blue and brown simultaneously) I trust he's capable of continuing the puzzle without the handy wait-one-day agreement to which no one actually is known to agree, since all see each other at all times (as they (do not) leave for the ferry). I am not willing to go there until a reasonable number of posters has come to their senses and seen that the guru is for the birds.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Math Fun

Postby Silhouette » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:15 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Sil is clearly defeated

What the fuck.
Seriously, what the fuck.

I have been the only person to offer sufficiently sane, clear and exhaustive presentations of the only deductions that deal with absolute certainty and nothing else in order to come up with the correct solution. And that makes me wrong...

Having no arguments and simply saying the other person is wrong is NOT philosophy.
So mad at you right now.

I've even irrefutably debunked all proposed attempts at alternative solutions thus far. You conveniently miss that or something?
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Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:43 pm

Silhouette wrote:I've even irrefutably debunked all proposed attempts at alternative solutions thus far. You conveniently miss that or something?

Only in your own mind.

Since Carleas is avoiding the question, perhaps you can answer it...
"If everyone on the island happens, for whatever reason, to start counting days with the exact same number would they deduce their proper eye color?" And since you are going to say, "no", please give an example of a number between 0-99 where their deductions would fail?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby Silhouette » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:02 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Silhouette wrote:I've even irrefutably debunked all proposed attempts at alternative solutions thus far. You conveniently miss that or something?

Only in your own mind.

No, real world too.
I suggest to you too, to provide an actual counter to my arguments rather than just saying "nah ur rong".

James S Saint wrote:Since Carleas is avoiding the question, perhaps you can answer it...
"If everyone on the island happens, for whatever reason, to start counting days with the exact same number would they deduce their proper eye color?" And since you are going to say, "no", please give an example of a number between 0-99 where their deductions would fail?

You mean "given some precarious assumption that has zero logical basis upon which to even be likely.... etc." ?

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have, using examples, once you formulate them in a clearer way.
"to start counting days".... from when and according to what?
"with the exact same number".... of what?
"please give an example of a number between 0-99".... of what? Deductions about what?
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Silhouette
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Location: Existence

Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:05 pm

Silhouette wrote:I'll be happy to answer any questions you have, using examples, once you formulate them in a clearer way.
"to start counting days".... from when and according to what?
"with the exact same number".... of what?
"please give an example of a number between 0-99".... of what? Deductions about what?

In other words, you haven't been reading anything but your own posts for many pages now.
.. I suspected that.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Math Fun

Postby James S Saint » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:25 pm

Isn't it interesting that Sil, FJ, and Carleas all don't understand the words, "start with", "counting days", and "pick". 8)
"But I don't understand".. "but I don't see the evidence"... :icon-rolleyes:
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

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