I’m not getting swept up into a ‘culture is changing, becoming more evolved, or is on a cognitive-education tipping point of a more enlightened age’ debate, as it more or less encompasses a sectarian viewpoint, and every sect, no matter or ‘religious’ or ‘atheists’ are thinking they are the next big wave, while at the same time lamenting how they are threatened or declining- which is blah. Men are today as they were yesterday, and will be much the same tomorrow. Evolution doesn’t happen that quickly, but our natural viewpoints always seem so special, informed, and bias towards itself. This is for me and everyone else.
I think in the original OP, the Ugandan government was certainly justified for shutting down for a period of review- from a perspective of safety, the large scale meetups FOR A LIMITED TIME- which 60 days is realistic, for large gatherings, but the church as a whole, no. Not household of chapel gatherings, but large ones like this that clearly turned fucked up in the end- it’s hard to get trampled from 12 people in a living room escaping because the curtain catches fire. Is it a infringement on our religious freedoms? Yep, but one that isn’t permanent, is quite short term, and is for the long term safety of the members from dying under such stupid circumstances.
This is going to involve the equivelent of a fire marshall looking at the cold facts of ingress and egress in and out of large events, how emergency crews will respond, and responsibilities of necessary security and police forces to coral people from violent, life ending panic when something accidentally goes wrong.
Yes, a Church, Mosque, tree shine, temple, or even a university class room or legion’s standard can be designated as sacred and untouchable- but we also have to remember the Church in the west isn’t designed after a Synagogue, but roman Basilica- a market place where men would walk around, buying goods- very similar to a indoor bazaar. It’s completely rational and acceptible to say ‘upper limit is this’ incase something happens, like a priest’s robe catches onfire, stumbling around in flames infront of a scared parishioners. It’s a structure like any other.
This other monkey babble, such as Irrelius bringing in taxation- imposing his ‘atheistic spiritualism’- religion by any other name- over more formal gatherings of the more established religious- has nothing to do with the safety of people in attendance to anything. It’s a safety issue, and we gotta take this into account as our main understanding. If your congregation is considered too large to fit inside of the church, consider it a complement and start looking to build a second site somewhere. This goes for any group meeting up, not just religious.
Fire Marshalls, and hiring competent security, could of solved this. It has nothing to do with commerce. Uganda is a former british colony, and certainly has similar liability clauses that exist in other formerly british nations. This isn’t hard to figure out. Big groups of people do stupid stuff, it’s been known since Aeneas the Tactician first wrote on this in his work ‘On the Defense of the Fortified City’… the rule for the last 2400 years in the western world has been making sure groups are guarded and coordinated by informed guards when mass hysteria takes place.
This got jack to do with religion. It was never a religious question- as I’ve pointed to it’s origins in Aeneas’ work. No special cults, no antagonisms between church, ideology, or state. It’s literally that simple.
No further debate about religion, or commerce- it’s not applicable. It never was, and the case can’t be rationally be made from this perspective. It’s a done story, we’ve known for ages how to solve this one. It’s stupid simple, and God isn’t to blame for it. Our capacity to panic and react to others panicking is. The need for government to insure it’s population isn’t systematically knocked off from panic. A backdoor sneak attack on religion is completely unwarranted, as I can easily point out countless scenarios were non-religious meetups turned out even worst. This is just a backdoor sneak attack by the less than honest to tear a hole into group meetings by those you despise for whatever petty bias. Rest assured, your viewpoint probably won’t be around in a few generations, so your angst will not last. Not saying all men will become religious, or vice versa- but I doubt this petty positioning will exist as it does not in five or six generations. It doesn’t work, isn’t conductive on any side, and is a big dead end that needlessly antagonizes groups of men against other groups of men who have more in common than they care to admit.
Fire Marshals, if large groups, use security. If you need help getting information on how to figure out how many people is safe, email me- no matter what country, ideology, or religious creed you are, and I will find someone local to you, or will hook you up with a competent means to figure out the formulas on your own in countries with no such offices to guide you. I can also explain to you how to set up a competent security force that can manage crowds. In Uganda, Mongolia, Tajikistan, wherever. If you can read this, and are in doubt, PM me, and I’ll get back to you. Don’t do something stupid like ban religion because of a crowd stampede, or ban education because of a school stampede, or ban food because of a supermarket stampede. It’s the most thickheaded and prejudice course you can go, and doesn’t resolve anything. Short term banning until you figure this out- which will take days at most, is okay for complex locations. Don’t do this to philosophy clubs or church clubs meeting up by the dozen in a house of cafe because you dislike it.
This discussion is over. It’s bullshit to continue on. Read Aeneas the Tactician, which is now online, for better insight if anyone gets confused.