omar wrote:Hello Mutcer,
--- My brain is my brain.
O- Understood. The question is what is your mind. We can do test of your brain. But where is your mind? Or is it just a funny name to what happens in your brain? Is the mind just another word for soul, and likewise, in your view, if you were consistent, another myth?
The mind is a function of the brain. It appears to be a word (some may find it a funny name) to describe what happens in your brain.
mind [mahynd] Show IPA
(in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.: the processes of the human mind.
Psychology . the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
intellect or understanding, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; intelligence.
a particular instance of the intellect or intelligence, as in a person.
a person considered with reference to intellectual power: the greatest minds of the twentieth century.
--- A choice is something I do with my brain.
O- You do nothing.
Not true. I am consciously aware of the choices I make.
Do you remember everything? Have you lost ever a pair of keys? Do thoughts keep you up at night? These are common occurences for many people, expected because there is no soul, no contiguous experience, but simply chemical states of your brain that are beyond your control.It is affected and by rule, it affects "you", the "I", subjective experience. It is not what you do to your brain but what your brain does to you. Of course you can affect the chemical balance of your brain by what you put in your blood, but then the effects are not a choice, and that is my point, that whichever the state of the brain, the mind follows. Drink and it changes your behaviour, and determines the character of your choices. Even if they remain subjectively "choices", the remain the inevitable result, effect, of a brain state.
--- Asking if my brain is my choice is like asking if my car is tires rotating and gears shifting.
O- That is a perfect narration of the myth I speak of. People like you think that subjective experience is objective, when it pertains to the self. You see your body as a car and your mind/soul, which is the height of ridiculousness for someone that is a supposed atheist, which you equate with your brain, drives it. Your brain is your body, however. You conceive it as a car in need of a driver, but any driver would only be an effect of the car, like an on-board computer.
You're going off on a tangent. You asked if my brain is my choice - and I responded with an analogy to show how silly that question is.
--- Not every cause has only one effect. In the case of my brain, there are plenty of effects.
O- Sure. Now, is the number of effects random or determined?
Seems more like it would typically be random. It also depends if you're talking about direct effect or indirect effect.
Effect: Wind & Rain
Cause: Wind & Rain
Effects: Damaged cars, coastal piers torn to shreds, power lines down, etc.
--- Incorrect. The cause of me being able to make free will choices is my brain. If it is not my brain, then what is it?
O- Pleading like a theist for the existence of Intelligent Designer. What they demand for the Universe, you demand for your self. It suffers from the assumption that there IS something in your question to answer. There is no freewill, no choices, other than in their subjective experience. It is what you imagine there to be, not what is actually is. Should I answer a Christian "Who" created the universe? Such assumptions go beyond what is necessary for an explanation of why there is something or why you behaved in a certain way.
I'm not sure I quite understand what you're getting at. But what is clear is you haven't identified something other than my brain as what you think is the cause of me being able to make free will choices. Or is it possible we're not on the same page as to what "cause" means?
--- But they have not had first hand encounters with God, while myself and you - not to mention every Christian - has had first hand experience with exercising freely made choices.
O- Everyday they face the world, they face what in their minds is the work of God. In your choices all you face is the work of what you think is your will. Your will, in itself, makes no sensory appearance. And yet, for both Christians and Mutcer, what is not seen, but felt, has to exist.
When you say "they", are you referring to Christians or to all people?
If God is a fancy word to describe what happens in our minds, then you're coming from a Pantheistic view. Are you a Pantheist?
--- Please guide me to an unbiased scientific study which shows we are automatons without the ability to make free choices - and then I will move from believing what you just said is 100% BS.
O- Funny that you have to qualify the character of research. You acknowledge then the existence of biased scientific study? We do what we subjectively wish to do. But our subjective itself is the result of a brain that is outside of what we do. It does us, we don't do it.
No surprise here. There obviously is no scientific study which shows we are automatons without the ability to make free choices. It appears to be nothing more than a theory of yours.
--- Guide me to an unbiased scientific study which shows we are automatons.
O- Automatons have no subjective experience we are aware of. That however simply adds the illusion of choice to an experienced self. It does not cause the objective existence of a random event, or brain state.
Once again, no surprise. I'm not asking what an automaton is or experiences. I'm asking for you to guide me to a scientific study. As you haven't, I can safely assume that there is no scientific study which shows we are simply automatons.