The parts about going in deeper, constraint and being free. You can make an argument that concurs with the manner in which Ayer, Luno, you and I find them meaningful [together] and an argument that does not. But the relationships themselves are so complex and intertwined in the problematic nature of “existence” how would you really be able to resolve it?
This sort of discussion fits right into Rorty’s conjectures about ironism.
Determinism [if true] is threatening [dismaying] to some but not to others. As is autonomy. We have particular narratives we pick up. Why? Because we encounter some sets of ideas but not all the other ones. And what we think we know about the ideas becomes intertwined in the experiences we have or do not have.
So, how does anyone really know if they are fooling themselves about the extent to which this is something they are doing because they chose freely not to choose something else.
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Well, a determinist by being a determinist really cannot claim they know the reasons they have for their beliefs. Not that someone who believes in freewill can therefore claim they do - or doesn’t have other problems.
I just need to be very clear, my example had nothing to do with determinism. Perhaps one could tie them together, but that was not my intent. I was simply drawing an analogy between a person experiencing something unpleasant - the potential truth of determinism, being raped - being told why it is really OK or doesn’t bother someone else.
I actually see no reason to believe determinists would be more likely than anyone else to try to explain away the naturalness of reacting very negatively to being raped.
I know, I think, what I am talking about, but I am avoiding many areas of the debate. I would think of trying to demonstrate free will, for example.
I don’t see how determinism or free will being the case actually changes our choosing how to live. It may depress us or scare us into suicide, respectively, I suppose. But I can still strive to be kind and good, regardless of whether this has all been determined in advance or the world really could go in a number of directions and from some uncaused place I can choose.
If I was utterly convinced determinism was the case, I would not then decide to act meanly to children.
so how does this relate to free will and determinism? To me, in terms of relating to other people, its like the difference between living on a world without the color blue as opposed to a world without the color red. The issue has ramifications for how I feel about life, but in terms of how I want to relate to other people, it really doesn’t matter. I think, at least.
Can you tell me how the lack of resolution on the issue affects how you interact with other people or your moral code, etc.?