Chester wrote:I don't need to believe in materialism in order to believe in reality.
Materialism is reality.
Mo_ wrote:Snap. Was that in Batislavia?
Anyways, let's talk about "physicalism" (the same thing as materialism, just updated). Try to stay with me on this one...
What is 'physical'? Just what obeys the laws of physics.
What are the laws of physics? Just the laws of the universe.
What is the universe? Well, 'universe' is synonymous with 'everything'.
Therefore, everything is physical.
That's by definition, son.
quetzalcoatl wrote:Materialism is reality.
really? So define reality as an object?
Hmm actually this isn’t a debate about that, so perhaps just try to say what materialism is known to be and can be ~ rather than just say its everything when that’s implausible.
Fundamentally I’d say materialism is the result of law and info upon the fabric of reality. Or that there is no such fabric, but a fabric is formed under certain conditions!
The base of reality seems ever more mysterious to me, its as if it can be anything in reality yet is none of those things.
Cardinality creates aggregate = edges, and energy is defined by that [limits] becoming forces. when forces form into patterns and shapes you get matter [particles].
Science mostly just stick labels on things, momentum is a force of energy [or a ‘dimension’ apparently] but we don’t know what energy ‘is’ or what forces are, or by what they are manifest, we only know how they appear in the world.
Laws are an abstraction which humans overlay on top of reality. In reality, there are no laws.Laws pertaining to experience is reality.
FilmSnob wrote:Yeah, an assumption that you yourself have been making all throughout this thread.
I'll give you a clue: if you also believe the bull that mauled that philosopher (this was actual Greece btw, I just can't remember the guy's name) was real, you are making materialist assumptions about reality.
phyllo wrote:Laws are an abstraction which humans overlay on top of reality. In reality, there are no laws.Laws pertaining to experience is reality.
FilmSnob wrote:The bull is a material reality. Everything is a material reality. "I am not a solipcist" is no argument.
phyllo wrote:Science is a description of reality. It's a record of experiences - all of which have been material experiences. Science does not describe anything which is not matter or energy.
Everything you have ever experienced as real, has been matter and energy.
I'm gonna do you a favor:
Materialism=The study of observable reality.
Chester wrote:Ok Mo, why is this not a dream with laws ? Why does this have to be a reality based on mind independence?
Mo_ wrote:Chester wrote:Ok Mo, why is this not a dream with laws ? Why does this have to be a reality based on mind independence?
What? What do you mean "a dream with laws"? Are you doing some sort of Cartesian thing... wondering about Evil Demons? If you are, touche. Just don't take it outside with you, you'll get hit by a car or beaten up by an old lady. If consequences matter at all to you, I suggest you go with the theory that best explains them.
Chester wrote:How exactly does materialism best explain reality? Come on mate, all I know is that there is a reality, why should I assume it is a material reality?
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