Well, I’d like to see the textual support if it’s convenient. I haven’t read the entirety of the Groundwork, but I’ve certainly read most of it before.
Okay, I get this and it sounds familiar. I preliminarily concede that you’re right about the rich/full life being a part of it then. I agree with you when you said “So what if I’m irrational?” in response to the CI, as it shows despite what Kant thought would be a reasonable critique of his theory that his theory is unsatisfying to many people. However I stand by what I’m saying about the appropriateness of one moral theory being determined by how satisfying it is over another and not determined by whether it is in some sense “objectively” better than another theory or not. See, again, what you said here:
You can back away from this statement if you want, but it sounds like an objective judgement. Why can’t someone choose to follow Kant’s ethics and be better off?
Yes, I think Kant was brilliant as well, it’s not hard to see at least some brilliance in The Critique of Pure Reason.
Pardon the mass posts, but I’m bored and want to talk about Kant. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, there’s no one around willing to do that.
I wish to emphasize something about this point.
Part of the frustration (and Genius of Kant) is the fact that his moral theory is unlike others in that he doesn’t allow for moral intuitions to be used against his theory. You see, with normal moral theories, lets say Utilitarianism, you come up with a scenario in which it says something that conflicts with our moral intuitions, and that’s it. For instance, you say a surgeon who has a healthy patient and five patients about to die if they don’t get organ transplanted is obligated under the utilitarian principle to kill the healthy patient and use his organs to save the five. And then you say that doesn’t feel right. Your moral intuitions are repulsed by this answer, and you used this fact to argue against utilitarianism.
Kant preempts this objection and says your moral intuitions do not have a basis. Morality, he argues, needs reasons. Your feelings are not enough. So you can’t use non-rational reasons, moral feelings that sort of just arise when you are presented with a scenario, to argue against his theory. I fucking hate him, but he was a genius.
“I am willing to grant that most of our actions are in accord with duty; but if we look more closely at the devising and striving that lies behind them, then everywhere we run into the dear self which is always there; and it is this and not the strict command of duty (which would often require self-denial) that underlies our intentions.”
Forget your natural human non-moral inclinations–which I think anyone will concede are necessary to a full and rich life. In fact, deny them. Your only concern in life is being moral.
Take it as you wish, but what I’m getting at is what I think is the fact that a rich and full life ought to be concerned not just with being moral for its own sake, or with doing everything as a means to being moral. I mean, I will concede that Kant permits for personal happiness, but only because he thinks being happy may in some cases be necessary to being moral. In other words, you can’t do your duty to others if you’re not yourself happy. Your own person is not a point of major concern for Kant, unless you need to somehow take care of yourself in order so that you may make yourself physically and psychologically capable of being moral.
Oh come on man. I even broke out my Kant book.
[tab]Still, arguing with you has forced me to better digest the material and come up with new ways of phrasing the point.[/tab]
Ah so your saying because mundane babble is random and no other thread is that this thread is the overall spectrum of thought revealed of the forum members and is much easier to identify in random dialogue. Probably true, but something in another thread could increase or decrease the spectrum but this thread probably gives the highest possibility to identify the mood because it is centralized. More efficient and definitely easier to observe (easier = more accuracy)… so ya I see what your saying.
There was a sound this morning before I woke up I did not hear it but I remember it now suddenly It was a rickety sound that was like the wind blowing against a flagpole but there is no flagpole and also no wind this morning so … what it was I don’t know it is quite mysterious to me, as I go make some coffe…
[a minute]
So now the coffee is brewing in the kitchen, I love the sound… yes it will be nice coffee I made it nice… but what is Arabica? Does it mean it is from Arabia or is it a type of bean let me look it up… “Coffea arabica is a species of Coffea originally indigenous to the mountains of Yemen in the Arabian Peninsula,” Interesting so I am drinking Yemenite coffee, from Yemen where the women wear black burqas and high heels.
But the sound it is weird I still have it in my head it was like a flagpole… I already said that. I just made 10.000 with nice work I did for Volkswagen I can afford a new espresso machine I may buy it, maybe I buy something nice for my grilfriend who wants to go to Moscow, I may take her to Moscow but what was that sound…
It sounds like I am at the sea, and it is calm I can hear the seagull but I actually don’t hear them, I hear a bird cry but it is not a seabird. Maybe I am dreaming.
There’s a rock stuck in my ass, maybe I should walk the path instead. Am I disheveled? Maybe a bit eccentric, though the taste of silver is often copper so one can never tell with those measurements. I look to the sky and for a brief moment I feel peace. It was a strange kind of peace, the kind your body never wants to share with your mind; what a selfish bastard it is. Mushrooms feel this peace, but they smell funny and are infinitely unaware of how bad their jokes are so you cant trust those little fuckers, you know? Christ, what the hell is that? A swarm of jellyfish perhaps, or maybe those are clouds. Either way they’re shaped like a giant pair of tits, well I guess i’m going with clouds then. I’m not sure where I’m headed, maybe I’ll just put this rock back in my ass and sit down for a little while, then again I don’t really like things up my ass so I believe I’ll go for a walk. Yes, I’m definitely convinced those are clouds now. -FIN-