Who here is an alpha male?

Yeah, but one plus one makes two, and then you have a wolfpack!

Nonetheless, nobody is being dominated, we are having a mutual exchange. These suspicions are just speculative inference.

If you ‘win’ something it hasn’t exactly ‘come to you’ unless you’re talking about the lottery here. If you win, you’ve fought in some way or other. Even if you only stared someone down with your eyes…

Alpha status is very high maintenance because there’s always going to be some young gun lurking about the perimeter (or sitting at your feet) who thinks they can win in the arena. :banana-dance: Of course eventually some young gun will win what you’ve carefully maintained for a while.

So, to die in a blaze of glory, or ride off into the distance on a fine, white horse…

Yes, I am. Fortunately I have good reason to be.

I find tournament much more appealing, I prefer the tension and challenge in such engagement to the release and resolution in compromise.

I consistently find myself challenging males a lot, yes. Even this thread itself is for tracking down potential “biggest men in the group” on certain grounds - because I desire good competition and am making even the means to competition into competition. There have been plenty of challenges from other males along my way.
I’m not into dirty work, so I just stick to what I like doing and let others fit around me. If they’re not sure about the equality then I just explain things to them. It’s not like I don’t pull my own weight - and my life is lighter than most.

‘Fearful displays’ are not always called for. Firm displays are the norm, and sufficient.

In other species, one tactic is for the female to get two males to challenge each other - and she then goes off into the bushes with a lower ranking male who would lose such a confrontation. But the alpha still gets the biggest share, so nothing is really lost in the ideal case where I find an equal rival.

So I relish the appearances of “young guns” - blaze of glory please.

I agree and have recently covered this aside from your short quotation of me.

Perhaps dominance hasn’t been established, but it has been asserted. Such is the exchange, which leads toward some kind of conclusion or other - though not necessarily a clearcut one.

One more thing:

Where is it written that alpha males are ‘violent’ and omegas ‘nice’? The violence sometimes comes in when there are threats to a dominant male. The male who beats off other males with ‘displays’ will not need to resort to violence. Nor will an alpha have to be violent towards females. I would say violence is more likely to send females, especially alphas, running in the opposite direction.

Yes but conclusions don’t lead to dominance or a revelation of an alpha male, regardless if one is clearly right or wrong.

Oh yes? What good reason would that be?

Your grammar has suddenly improved. Do you get lazy sometimes? If so, that’s when a challenge will floor you.

And what was the outcome of all those challenges?

Of course your not into dirty work. That sort of thing is for chamber maids.

Well if your displays are firm enough, others will be fearful.

What ‘species’ is that? Males challenge each other and so do females. There’s very little sharing going on.

Tickles feet.

Not sufficiently to be persuasive which is why I have picked up on it.

Anyone who wears shades at night is crying out to be dominated.

I wouldn’t interpret wording such as “more likely” in such a black and white manner.

What I was describing was tendency. Omegas tend to be nicer, particularly in the non-threatening kind of way, and alphas tend to be more violent due to the fact that they never had to learn to control themselves and compromise to quite the same extent as omegas. Notice use of words such as “tend” and “extent” - they are very important to my point.

I have also previously covered the fact that, despite the tendency of alphas to be relatively more violent, violence is often not necessary.

With regard to female selection, it turns more toward alphas during times of threat and scarcity of resources, and more toward lower ranks when things are calmer, richer in resources - so more attention can be given on both accounts to care and nurture, particularly toward offspring. And it is never only one or the other, so no, violence does not necessarily send females running in the opposite direction.

Nobody gets a medal or levels up like in a video game. The dynamics are subconscious when not conscious: respect changes, opinions change etc. - and all on potentially very subtle levels. Often, like I said, the change doesn’t reveal anything particularly clearcut. But clearcut boundaries aren’t needed for one person to be more dominant than another to the smallest of degrees. Small degrees often don’t finally resolve matters of rank, so alphas can “battle it out” potentially for a long while, but it gets resolved eventually. Likewise with a beta challenge to the established alpha.

Whether one is “clearly right or wrong” is immaterial, the turning point is when one starts conceding to the other to a signficant degree, in a way that is not necessarily related to the topic at all.

I guess it’s just something you’ll come to realise in time.

I find I can afford “laziness” without too much danger. If it gives someone a way in then all the better.

I get something out of each one and find my worth to be increasingly proven each time.

Yeah, if fear is what you want. It’s not the only way to earn compliance - I don’t need to expend huge effort to attain something small and simple.

It was some primate, I forget which - most likely gorillas, though it’s probably something that extends beyond just them e.g. humans.

:stuck_out_tongue:

And when “significant degrees” do not occur for some?

Hasty Generalization :smiley:

:laughing: Fuse, you’re probably more on the way to being an Omega guy. They may have some friends but like to do things on their own without being part of a group a silly clique. They don’t feel the need to be leaders. They can relate to all kinds of people and like to get things done on their own. They don’t feel a need to use people. They are not haughty or arrogant where it comes to what they’ve done or accomplished. But they happily realize they’ve achieved something and do take pride in that.

As opposed to the alpha, the Omega man does not need the kind of recognition or support that the alpha does - he knows exactly who he is - what his human worth is, and doesn’t need to be worshipped by his minions or friends. :laughing: He knows he’s capable of mostly standing alone (prefers it even) even when he chooses not to, and his relationships, which he may have far far less of, than the alphas, are much deeper and more meaningful than that of the alpha male. They’re both strong in their own ways, but the Omega man has more inner strength - he just does not need to exhibit it.

Two alphas are fighting over a female in a club, vying for her attention, while she looks on, bored. The stronger alpha gets to take her home and he absolutely knows he will have sex with her…after all, he is an alpha male. :evilfun:

Meanwhile, in walks the Omega man, goes over to her and says hi, smiles at her…they have a few words…and out the door she walks with him…while the two alphas haven’t even noticed that they’ve lost their prize. #-o

The Omega takes her home, doesn’t assume sex, there isn’t any - just a wonderful intimate conversation and many, many more and 2 years later they get married and live happily ever after. :laughing: Meanwhile, those 2 alphas are still in the club fighting over that female…long gone. :laughing: :laughing:

Yeah I agree with this

Really…then why did you say “whatever floats your boat”? :-k

Omega meaning last, I would think would be the 40 year old virgin, but I don’t think you described the guy who is always last here…

No, the Omega guy is not the last guy, the 40 year old virgin - though he probably wouldn’t give a damn if he was. He was probably just living his life in his own way, according to his own needs, and enjoying it. He probably wouldn’t even label himself as a virgin - he’s given up labels and in a sense he is more man than the alpha. He doesn’t judge himself according to how his peers do nor according to how his peers live. He isn’t necessarily an ‘island’ but if he was, he could happily and contentedly float on.

The ‘last’ here more pertains to what he has evolved into…perhaps the alpha is not on the first rung but the Omega is the last and also the first, in a sense. The alpha has far to go but the Omega is just about there.

To me, the alpha is barely a diamond in the rough but compared to the Omega, the alpha is strictly the coal :laughing: before all of the pressure and the heat and the energy has formed and created those wonderful patterns which the Omega has within him. The Omega may not be perfectly complete, but he stands above the alpha, though not really caring or having anything to prove while the alphas observe him and weep…and the Omega does not even notice. He’s too busy living his own life on his own terms.

There you go there’s the lone wolf dealy.

No, he’s really not a lone wolf. That’s someone who has no friends or relationships for whatever reason…fear of commitment perhaps or some kind of anti-social being…he wishes to be an island. The Omega does have a few friends, just not as many as the alpha usually has - all of those hanger ons. Like I said, the Omegas friendships are few but deep. For him, quality pawns quantity. And he is a social creature, just not such as the alpha wolf.

He may have started out by being an outcast - self imposed or otherwise and it strengthened him in such a way that he came to realize that he can stand alone (usually does but not always) It is the intent that matters. But if he needed to be, he could be the lone wolf…being in the forest all alone can be a wonderful thing. Don’t you think? At the same time, he can hear the howls of the others…he doesn’t need them as much as all of the others do…and his howl is different than the others.

He isn’t the lone wolf but he may at times be the lonely wolf because of how he chooses to live his life…and lonely isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s a great thing not to have all of those minons hanging on you. He loves his aloneness and when he chooses not to be alone, it is because it is his choice…not his need.

We got the same vision just different terms …

Sounds to me like you’re just describing your ideal guy - and I don’t think omega is quite the right term.

Think scrawny, bitter, inept, hideous nerd with no self-esteem and not much to him, wishing he was popular. That’s your omega right there - compliant, overly self-conscious and vulnerable, pretty much everything that seems to encourage being dominated and probably bullying. Your ideal guy sounds more like fuse, gobbo or ww3 - none of them seem to give too much of a fuck what others think and appear to like where they are. Middle to higher ranks.

So you’re not into alphas, no biggie. Alphas like girls who nigh on won’t be won, who don’t want to have to put up with more compliant, modest males, who will only accept the guy who comes out on top. You don’t seem particularly alpha female, though perhaps middle to higher rank - matching your taste in men.

Btw, alphas don’t depend on minions… they tend to be friends with betas who are hardly puppets. Dependency doesn’t come into it for alphas, other people come to them - but that doesn’t even necessitate that the alpha requires friends. In order to be cool around people you pretty much need to be fine on your own, or a dependence and compliance out of fear of loss of friends will compromise your dominance.

You try to paint this picture of the vulnerable alpha, it really doesn’t compute I’m afraid. And preference for alone time is reserved for middle to higher ranks - as distinct from having no other choice than alone time since everyone thinks you’re lame…