Who here is an alpha male?

MOON BOOTS FTW!!!

-Fun, slightly sexy image - but i don’t see the dominance element in it. I see explicit aggression, which is something else… In my book, alpha-females are leaders of women, to put it simple. I’m thinking: most of the early feminists, Joan of Arc and the like…

That’d be that big-arse gun she’s holding.

This thread’s fate:

Is an alpha female a masculine female?

Or, an uber-female?

Then, what is it to be “female?”

Or what is “masculinity” and " femininity"?

Gender blah blah blah

Oh of course :wink: and don’t forget handsome and impressive :sunglasses:

Yes

On the contrary!

The OP describes a thoroughly respectable person when they are an alpha male - what you are confusing as a “douche” would be a non-alpha male unjustifiably exhibiting those traits, faking the last one. Obliviousness to the sentiments of others would be accompanied by vulnerability, so faking would be even more see-through.

The trait of “being fine with it” is perhaps the most key requirement of the role - though it must be genuine. A non-alpha male can easily claim to have the OP’s characteristics, but it will be evident whether they are sincere through the reactions of others. A sure sign that it is just a front is that people will think those traits are negative in him. A sure sign of an alpha is that people will think those traits positive, though more than likely they would be reworded to mean the same thing but in a more respectful vocabulary.

Carers, supporters, family men - these are not alphas, they are not so much attractive leaders, they are more serving. When caring is sexually attractive, tokens of care will be feigned, but only secondarily.

Alpha males are the most sexually appealing, which doesn’t necessitate being the best at bringing up the products of their sex. Caring is menial and detracts from leadership - though today we increasingly see the two coming together, as our individualistic economic system tears apart naturally healthy communal groupings. Though despite this cultural shift, alpha characteristics are not yet lost entirely.

From your need to justify why it doesn’t bother you to be “accused” of OP’s characteristics, it can be concluded that you see them in a negative light. This would be an indication that you are not genuinely fine with such accusations, especially since they have been used as accusations rather than compliments.

You are right that Alphas are plain to see just by looking at them.

They are the perfect complement to the Alpha male. The females are not defined against the males, they are mutually defined against one another. It does boil down to sexual selection in the same way for either sex - the OP’s characteristics are exhibited by the alpha male because in the alpha male they are the most sexually appealing. Likewise, alpha female characteristics are the most sexually appealing.

Propensity to care is likewise not necessitated by the alpha female role, just sexual desirability. Though in practice, the strong mother/child bond will cause the mother to be drawn to caring for their child - but this is actually a secondary issue.

Sexual selection varies according to culture and species - some contemporarily sexy attributes in human females include being fun, capable, communicatively compelling, self-confident, discriminating, and uncompromising in her choice of male - settling and submitting only to an alpha male (rather than one who inspires mothering). Though that is not to say that an alpha male is not childlike in certain ways.

Do you think people can either become or stop being alphas?

Yes.

In other species, the alpha won’t last particularly long in his role. In humans today, there is all sorts of group defection and change, introducing all kinds of new associates and conditions that affect one’s role in any given group.

Alpha male material, that more accurately this thread addresses, won’t necessarily be alpha in all circumstances and permenantly.

When I was in elementary school I was kind of like the leader of the pack among my friends. I remember doing what I wanted and making a lot of the decisions for the group. But I think I was also a fair leader.

Ever since my turbulent teen years, I’ve kind of been on my own. I’m social and I have good friends, but it doesn’t compare to the kind of control and cohesion that I had with my earlier group of friends. I don’t lead or take charge of other people mostly because I don’t feel like dealing with it. I do my own thing and I gravitate towards people who are of a similar nature.

I respect lots of people for various things here and there, but getting lasting respect from me is not easily earned. When it is, however, I am extremely loyal.

So no, I’m not an alpha.

That’s not what an alpha is at all, that’s just an asshole.

I think the whole concept is bullshit, honestly. What people are attracted to in an “alpha” is the illusion of fearlessness. To maintain that illusion is one hell of a feat in itself, though.

And, yeah, you’re describing a douche. Possibly even a sociopath.

I direct each of you to my reply to Phoebus.

Not quite true - the alpha will still feel fear, that’s not the issue. The issue is what behaviour the fear causes and what consequences this behaviour has.

The result will be the submission and attention of those around you in the wake of any instance. The OP characteristics will be apparent, though looked at in a positive light. If it is a fearful instance, the alpha male reaction is distinguishable from the reaction of other males. The reaction may appear to be more fearless compared to the reactions of others, yes. In any situation the alpha is going to come across as more cool and in charge. But this is not a “feat” as though it is some kind of trick or effort. It’s just a group emergence and relativity of reactions that results in somebody becoming more familiar with leadership etc.

In a group of two the more cool and in command person may not be a typical alpha in a larger group. There will be more “alpha-ness” apparent in them, but it would take a while to become honed and familiar if that person was not already accustomed to alpha behaviour. This “alpha-ness” would be evident in such a small group even if only slight, but it wouldn’t be so recognisable as alpha male behaviour in a larger group where the alpha male is more accustomed to his role.

A valid question might be how significant this distinction is today.

With much more variable social groupings - compared to, say, a pack of wolves - the alpha role is much less prominent, refined and it is more variable. It is, however, still significantly apparent and not an illusion.

I never argued the “alpha” doesn’t fear. I said he/she is proficient in the ability to seem fearless. The “alpha” persona is almost certainly a costume, in my opinion. Some people arrive at this behavior naturally - they learn it over the course of their lives. However, many also seek and learn the behavior with the intention of projecting an illusion.

The former just isn’t to be trusted, assuming the characteristics listed are of honest sentiment. The latter is an actor in the worst sense, and, in the end, a joke.

Of course it is to be trusted. Not trusted to give you an equal share or sacrifice itself so you may live, but trusted to be the one to look to for direction and capablity in handling situations. They can be counted on to be good company and a symbol of cool strength.

This isn’t a costume, you said it yourself that it can be arrived at naturally. As such it will be reliably what it is, and not faulter.

The actor will experience holes in his performance because so much of being an alpha is genuine comfort in his position, at all times immediately drawing from the subtlest of experiences. Acting can be very good though, and a good actor may find he no longer needs to act once his acting pays off. Then he too can be trusted.

The failing actor cannot be trusted, that much is true. They will be a joke.

Hmm? Reply?

My choice of archetypal characters is bad. ‘Carers’ carries the wrong implication, as does ‘supporter’. Family man is more accurate but, ah ha, burdened. When you say:

You come closest to what I think an alpha male really represents, that is, someone who stands in a certain relation to a group through which they embody and uphold a certain social standard. By being leaders they themselves represent the embodiment of the rules of the society that they protect, thus they gain their actual characteristics from this relationship. In this sense they are carers, supporters. As with many things, I’m not sure any exhaustive lists are possible, only a finite set of rules that makes building such a list possible.

I’m with those who think the OP describes a douchebag.

And not an alpha male?

I wouldn’t say that any of the charcteristics mentioned in the OP are necessitated by being an alpha male. A couple of them are often bi-products but that’s about it.

Also it depends a lot on what group you are in. Sometimes I am alpha male, but other times I am not.

So if Silhouette is off base with his idea of an alpha male, can we get some alternate conceptions?

It’s easy to confuse self-confidence with arrogance. I think that is where the ‘douche-bag’ comments are aimed.

Confidence is sexually attractive, but men (particularly young men) are notorious false advertisers, a trait most successful women are especially tuned in to.

This is exactly right, such false advertising often comes in the form of outrageous boasts - which fits very nicely into the definition of arrogance: “making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud”.

Arrogance is only interpreted as negative in those who do not have the self-centred imperviousness and the being fine with it (confidence) - to “back it up”. But often the claims themselves can be left completely unproved, as long as the male is alpha enough to arrogantly puff himself up with enough imposition and threatening dominance.

So whilst arrogance doesn’t pertain to “alpha-ness”, “alpha-ness” does contain arrogance.

What happens when the impulse to lead, an alpha nature, is combined with an aversion to other people, and an anti-social nature?