Thanks, Jake. And I’m glad to hear about the fires.
Interesting that you’d mention Forrest Gump. I abhor that film. It’s offensive in many ways. And I suppose that there are people who will think that it somehow describes america. Gump is brave and loyal to a fault, but also quite stupid and subject to the dumbest of luck. Sure, it’s a cartoon character. But people used to think all americans were cowboys.
Thank God I’m not the only one.
Yea man dude man dude!! 
tadadaaa lala yo man 
ILP is such fun!
decency… =D>
LOL
thats funny.
Btu seriously, we were discussing politics.
And what part of such practices is exclusive to American politics?
With America, it has suddenly become an issue. Which is good. I like that America is held to higher standards than the rest of the human race and its politics, which were never in the entire written history decent. 
I cant’ imagine that it does. What country are you from?
I like the film, but not because I think it represents America. It represents happy-happy-joy-joy Hollywood filmmaking, and does so efficiently. When I go to the cinema, I want to be manipulated into suspending my thinking.
It is not a great happy-happy-joy-joy film though - it just does the trick in a weird way that is kind of funny, and translates very badly into German. I can certainly understand that if even the slightest suspicion arises that it is supposed to represent you - or where you live, that is sickening. Just be glad you dont have to watch Dutch films.
I love the firepit. Life is just not the same without a fire now and then.
Yay apologetics, focus all the attention off yourself and then pretend your actions are excused.
America is not held to a higher standard, American government believes it can do what the hell it likes and no one has any power to stop it.
If it is held to any standard it is a piss poor one, and it doesn’t even remotely live up to that.
It lies cheats, gets rid of democracies that are troublesome, sells drugs and arms to fund wars, and behaves like all the countries it purports to detest. It is the most giant hypocrite on Earth and its presidents in the main have been little more than the heads of a corrupt organisation that has little or no moral rigour.
If you actually did give a shit about standards you wouldn’t behave like a giant cunt now would you?
And no it is not excused nor is anyone else so woefully disrespecting of the international community, nor do many countries behave like you do. That’s why everyone hates America, because you just don’t give a shit about anyone or anything apart from yourself and your vapid little elitocratic business circle jerk, as long as your economic interests aren’t jeopardised and the oil is still coming in you’ll do whatever the fuck you can to see that the world is unstable and violent, by poking at bees nests.
Why don’t you make up utter lies about Iran and go start another illegal war, it’s not like you care what anyone thinks or ever have.
Standards, what standards?
A giant cunts just needs a giant cock to discipline it. Its not Americas fault that everyone else is so tiny and insignificant. Oh those good old days of the Cold War - when none of these pathetic midgets was whining over Americas massive potency… then it was properly valued.
America as the sole global power naturally breeds envy.
The “international community” exists because of Americas imperialism. If it weren’t for the US domination of the planet, (which is why it is exposed, why people like you are even capable of venting their malcontent across the borders) there would be no such idea of homogenous mass of 'Earthlings".
Comical that you are addressing me, a Dutchman, as the government of the United States.
But what “utter lies”? It’s more than reasonable that the powers that be try to prevent another power, especially a religiously motivated one, from attaining nuclear status. Do you really believe that Iran has no political intentions with their nuclear program? Or do you actually believe in fairness when it comes to owning atomic bombs? I can’t believe anyone would be that crazy.
Calrid,
I don’t know what color glasses you wear, but…
That take’s in just about every country that has ever had the power to do so. You aren’t describing America, you’re describing the whole fucking world. I’m not sure what high mountain peak you sit upon to pass judgement, but singling out any country for your whine says you either haven’t done well in history or you’re ignoring it.
Iran can either sell its oil or it can use it to run power stations. Or conversely it can use nuclear plants for power and sell all of its oil, what would you do. These are American reactors, and European enrichment facilities (at least the tech and know how is).
The NNPT allows any country to use nuclear power for its energy concerns. Iran is perfectly and legitimately allowed to run nuclear power stations.
The CIA published a report detailing how Iran had abandoned its arms goals in 2002. Its not a question of convincing anyone of anything, it is a question of Iran letting inspectors in, although to all intents and purposes everyone already knows what they are using the fuel for. To power its nuclear grid and hence enable it to more lucratively sell its oil instead of wasting it in power stations. Which was the whole reason the US gave them the nuclear generators in the first place. Iran likes to posture though and give America the finger, hence the present situation. Iran is doing nothing that the USs intelligence community doesn’t know about anyway.
The UN came about because of all countries getting together after WWII and thrashing out a treaty. You’re thinking of NATO.
America ignores the UN and procedes to declare war regardless of the legality so I don’t really see how it provides an example of anything, except a liar and a cheat. The world community exists despite the acts of American imperialism. If America had its way they’d bin the UN because it is an inconvenience to its politcal aims.
Actually population wise America is hardly significant, the only cock willing to stand up to it is powerless before its veto powers. Hence it continually defies it, reneges on treaties and generally acts like a belligerant asshole, blundering from one political disaster or conflict to the next, like a two year old on too much sugar
The cold war was a massive waste of time money on resources it involved itself in because of Communism being evil apparently. That worked out great didn’t it, we almost destroyed the whole planet because of two belligerent children rattling their sabres.
Kudos though to Russia for convincing the US that it was in fact a superpower. Even if it suited Americas political interests to play along. MAD what a fuck up that was.
In the 18th century, you can’t behave like a massive cunt any more and not pay the consequences. You already are.
Wake up its the 21st century, colonialism is so passé.
History lessons from an American, you don’t even study it at school do you? Or geography another indication of your lack of interest in the world you are not really part of any more.
World community? Do you even know what that word means?
Your a maverick loaner with a badge.
There’s a big anti-American kneejerk thing in Europe. It’s not jealousy, resentment or anything, just a bit of reaction to perceived arrogance and a heap of groupthink. GWB didn’t help matters, mind you.
But I like America. People are friendly, and not so cynical or guarded, and they’re interested. And the chicks dig a British accent. And NYC is the most kick-ass city ever.
But I couldn’t live there. The people are maybe more human and warm, but the society as a whole much less. To me, Walmart is a cavern of cheap consumerist tat, society seems more splintered there (maybe that’s just my external view) and things are more industrial, more machinelike. Though maybe I’d suit a small town in Montana where everyone knows everybody else and people still live in a community. I like my local butcher and the wine shop run by the misanthropist who can grumpily tell you why you’re an idiot for choosing that wine to go with that meal. I can live without guns.
But space, I can’t argue. I’d love more space. Guess I’d better set my sights on Canada, eh?
Of course it is. We are an extremely diverse people with often divergent interests. We have come from literally everywhere. Our backgrounds are multitudinous.
That is the best part, as it happens. And why, notwithstanding anybody else’s opinion to the contrary, there is no “typical” American.
(Except for me. I’m extremely typical. Quite average, actually. More average than perhaps anyone I know. A portrait of extraordinary averageness.)
That’s heterogeneous; there are plenty of things that are heterogeneous but not splintered.
And I’m sure we could probably both think of many examples.
But when it comes to the human being…
If you’re right about that - that energy this is the only aim -, then I dont think there will be a war there. Unless some crazy US strategists are bent on setting the entire Middle East aflame so they can profit from it somehow.
That there was such a thing as an initiative of all countries coming together had much to do with the political scope of the war. If the US hadnt intervend, either Stalin or Hitler would have prevailed on the mainland, maybe some kind of treaty between them. There would be no question of an international community like there is now.
The reason for the UN was the deadlock at the end of that war, between three different victors over one common enemy. This unlikely turn of events, that such different ideological forces came together while reaching the same goal, was what prevented the continuation of the war.
And what exactly is the value of the UN as an example? Why would you hold compliance with the UN as a standard for the morality of the US? Just because in the UN every nation has some kind of voice? But that does not amount to any sort of goodness in my eyes, especially since all of these voices are purely opportunistic.
Well you can hardly deny that the US is powerful. India has a much larger population but isnt nearly as potent.
“Apparently?” So you are a communist, then? Or what?
I dont see the point you are trying to me, except that all politics is ugly.
I agree with that. I just think Soviet and nazi politics were more ugly than US politics. I would prefer life in the US over Sowiet Russia or nazi Germany.
Again it was the warmongers in Bushes cabinet making trouble. Now they are gone I doubt anyone’s going to be threatening Iran for a while, not with the political furore that is happening atm anyway, as it is across the ME, sadly I think it would of happened sooner without Bush and his idiot cronies, the media both internet and developed worlds media has had a strong influence on the younger people in these countries. The US media ironically especially in Iran. Iranians don’t trust the English, which is probably wise we were responsible for a lot of crap. Although the US did under our treaty overthrow a stable democracy in return for a pro western autocratic Shah and oil concessions. Which ultimately resulted in the current republic when the Shah, became as most dictators do, extremely unpopular and out of touch with the people and was overthrown by a popular uprising. For which the CIA gave a very tacit apology, detailing how it had set back Iranian democracy and progress by decades. About the closest you are going to get to an apology from the US. 
Actually that was the reason for the power of veto being given to certain countries, the reasoning is given in the UN charter, to ensure no country forces itself on another country in the future etc. Paraphrasing but it was to prevent the reoccurence of another world war. President of the US made the speech you can find a summary of it here:
You seem to be talking about NATO again for some reason.
It acts on consensus not on its own.
The UN has bought about the peaceful resolution of over 200 conflicts, some of which resulted in War, UNICEF (its charity wing) has provided help of all different kinds in hundreds of countries. It’s goals are to reduce international tensions. It has also mediated the peace terms in conflicts where war has broken out. Its a far better moral guide than the Republican hardline idiots are.
It will be though when it becomes developed instead of developing as no doubt will China.
That said, I never said it wasn’t powerful it still has the most technologically advanced force combined with a large army thus is most powerful force on Earth. Although not for long probably, China does have a standing army of a million men, and it is technologically starting to catch up. Luckilly China is an extremely un interventionist country and in its history has seldom warred on anyone unless attacked first. Tibet being the only example I can think of, off the top of my head but I’m sure there are more.
So if I am anti US policy I’m a communist how very droll.
I am a liberal half way between the left and right… Ish. Or as they are called in the US communists. Being as you have no left. 
You don’t have to be a communist to see that the cold war was a big waste of both Russia and Americas time. however it suited both their political aims, for the Russians it kept their attention of their crumbling infra structure and the failure of a communist system. Win-win but still fricking stupid. For the US well I’m pretty sure you know why it suited their aims, however I don’t think they were quite aware of how weak Russia was at times. One has to admire their secret service in keeping the US in the dark and its acquisition of technology. One thing that can be said about the pseudo communist systems, they certainly favoured large and fairly efficient security services.
Ok, now you are denying what you suggested earlier, that the US would start a war against Iran.
That corresponds perfectly with what I said. You seem to have no point except that you find politics morally imperfect.
And since this is basically a summary of the Bill of Rights to apply to a global context, my point is enforced.
Noble aims, of course - it should come as no surprise that in pracitce it is a bit more difficult, since there are different ideas about what constitutes social advancement, as well as limited economic means.
Nontheless, it is clear that America, as could all others, could do more and better to attain these ideals.
No, I am talking about politics.
You are talking about heaven, from which all goodness rains down in the form of the UN without anything on the ground having anything to do with it. As I said and as you enforced, the role of the US was crucial to the formation of the UN and the formulation its ideals.
Can you show me the specifics?
I’m slightly sceptical about the noble practices of the UN.
America also has the notion of citizens rights, which is lacking in China.
Its (Americas) international power is based largely on the appeal of this notion as it was spread in its image after WWII. This is how they won the cold war.
Mjuh. Except that this argument is in your mind only.
I was respodning to your scepsis about Americas negative judgment of Stalinist communism.
For the record, I am a Dutchman, and I usually vote labor.
I regard this as a completely nihilistic and unphilosophical non-perspective.
I’m not even going to bother with most of this.
If you just want to say I am right an you are wrong go ahead but spare me the that’s exactly what I said crap because it wasn’t.
Just FYI you seem to have been wrong about just about everything so far. You need to learn your history and then come back when you know what it is you are talking about tbh.
Stalinist communism was an absolute traversty of what communism is about, he also killed between 10-20 million people which is why justifiably its history is universally despised. That doesn’t mean communism is bad just that Stalin was a brutal dictator.
Nobody won the cold war you maroon. Christ. It set the world back by decades, and communism had been failing since not long after its inception, it was one side pretending it was a super power and the other happy to play along. Fucking pointless. It was a pointlessly useless part of history where we almost annihilated ourselves over stupid arrogant ideologies that never really existed anyway. The only winner were arms manufacturers. What a shitty way to ruin a century quite frankly.
Won 
what did they win, the continued existence of mankind was the victor, but then ironically you didn’t need a cold war to have that happen.
Why don’t you move to the US since you love them so much?
I mean I know what they achieved but you seem to have bought into their arrogant bragging and propaganda that is self agrandizing bs. A great nation, could of been had they not been led by morons for most of the post war era. A golden age completely wasted by idiot presidents who thought they could control the world and just ended up making it a mess. There legacy is something we now all have to live with, a volatile world and a far more dangerous place than it should of been. Sure that aint just the USs fault but they sure are the major culprit in how to fuck things up 20th century stylee.
I could say the same thing to you.
Cause that is not only wrong, but also uninspired - a gloss-over of a global plan that actually went off quite well. If you can’t see the genius behind the cold war then you’re missing a lot. Do you want us to believe that 1900-2000 was the century where global citizens were still stuck in nationalistic psychologies? Of course not. That would be retarded.
And yet you have consistently failed to argue your case. You could say that or you could in fact just put your money where your mouth is for a change and start rebutting stuff.
Yeah it was magic living under the fear of total anihilation all the time.
Genius are you fucking mental?
Russia would of collapsed much sooner without the cold war taking focus off the severe hardships of its people, it basically gave the people something other than the government to blame for their problems which were in fact intrinsic of the psuedo-Socialist system they were labouring under. It prolonged the existence of communism and jeopardised the entire planet. It was a fuck up of biblical proportions.
Why is it you can’t admit when you fuck up? Is it a sort of defence mechanism, or just a result of being very nationalistic? There’s always got to be this propaganda bs that makes you out not to be a fuck up? I presume in the US you think you won Vietnam, Korea wasn’t a hopeless stalemate, and the cold war wasn’t a perilously pointless and resource draining exercise in stupidity by two cock tard penis fencing nations with oversized egos and nationalist ideologies.
It was fucking brilliant everyone nealry died and no one gained anything! War is fucking great isn’t it! 
Yeah but the the US is still stuck in nationalist ideologies in the 21st century. Where as everyone else in the developed world has kinda got over themselves, that’s a major reason for most of your problems. Btw Russia is still a very nationalistic and arrogant nation, but then it doesn’t go round invading people at the drop of a hat and its a more understated form of perceived superiority than the USs.
The 20th century was a complete mess, I mean come on you have to be wearing pretty rose tinted spectacles to see anything but the demise of idiotic ideologies as a win.
I’m not American, first of all. I’m not coming from a nationalistic tendency - quite the opposite, as I said.
When I say ‘success’ I am talking in a global development context. The cold war, was, objectively, two opposing powers developing technology at an remarkable pace as prompted by the fear of a nuclear annihilation. The people who finance wars don’t care what the threat is. That part is always some fiction. There’s no shame in admitting the cold war wasn’t really about nuclear annihilation. I mean, It’s not like I always thought that. I was taught the same stuff, but a level-headed analysis of history/the cold war should lead you to the same conclusion, should you get serious about this topic. Dozens of historical books say the same thing. Just pick one and read it.
The view that these nations, enmeshed in ostensibly controlling global finance systems, are somehow these discrete, autonomous agents who act in concert with the public announcements of their leaders is a radical view because there is no evidence to support that view. I mean if we don’t count high school textbooks. Countries are not ‘free’ to do what they wish just because a leader decides so. There is no point in saying ‘you need to back this up’ because you know at some level that I don’t. If you believe that you are hanging onto a delusion given to you by the media.