you took that dream analogy from Descartes 2nd and 3rd Meditation. 
But, regardless…I never have grown tired of hearing it.
even a brain in a vat would exist as a brain in a vat.
I just finished reading the Meditations, but I don’t recall such a passage in it, or a passage implicit of the dream analogy. Can you paint out to me where you find this. I’m very interested becasue Descartes has just become my favorite philosopher. His meditations were one of the most interesting things I’ve ever read: like the bricks and mortar of a Charlie Kaufman movie.
I do not deny this… I do deny that one would be able to prove that one is not a brain in a vat…
-Imp
I agree, thus
How do we really know we exist?
We must, on some level, exist as something (if even merely a figment of a dream) as the negation of some existence would be no existence, but then experience cannot be derived from nothingness.
I dont to know that I exist to know that I exist. Not many people consider Descarte’s “super-knowledge” as the standard knowledge.
I for one am a Fundamentalist. There are, of course, many variations but a couple of my fundamental beliefs are of the existence of myself and of the external world.
I used to delve deeply into the ideas of skeptisism but I later found the idea silly and not very pragmatic.
All these replys and not one person has quotedd it!
‘Cogito Ergo Sum’
You should read the Topic called ‘Two Mistakes and Scepticism’. Just click the link on the quote line
So, do I exist when I am unconscious, or otherwise have no awareness? Or do I slip into non-existence every night?
It sure is good luck that I usually find my body the next morning where I thought I had left it.
(So, do I exist when I am unconscious, or otherwise have no awareness? Or do I slip into non-existence every night?)
Well, for one, you can’t be sure you slip into non-existence because you are not conscious. It is entirely possible for you to exist in an unconscious state.
You can, however, be sure you exist while you are awake and conscious, because nonexistent things cannot be conscious. Therefore, IF you are conscious, THEN you exist.
Of course… the real "youâ€, that is, your consciousness itself, COULD exist on a dimension unknown to us. Therefore, your “you” or “self” COULD actually leave your body during periods of unconsciousness and that would mean that it is entirely possible for you to actually “find your body the next morning where you thought you had left it”.
BUT
Unfortunately, we can’t prove just yet… or possibly at all for that matter whether or not you actually are separate from your body.
It is likely outside our intelligence… like a family of ducks trying to figure out their DNA sequences.
I have no new insight into this question other than what can easily be read or independently thought of, and thus can randomly exist in dozens of different systems of thought. Yet, I’m always tempted to send a hard jab to the jaw of someone who poses the question of, “How do I know you exist?” haha - that act is a persuasive response. (Note that I said ‘poses the question’, not ‘asks the question’ - there is a difference)
read my signature…
-Imp
Kind of like… no, JUST like when I said…
[size=59]
You can, however, be sure you exist while you are awake and conscious, because nonexistent things cannot be conscious. Therefore,[/size] IF you are conscious, THEN you exist.
I GAME THEREFORE I AM.
A very good signature of a guy on MFO video game/philosophy forum.
I play video games, if I don’t exist, I can’t play video games, so it’s no doubt that I exist.
Does it matter?
Would you stop doing the things you do in life if you knew you don’t exist?
And by the way: Is living in a dream non-existence?
Well… most of it has been said in this topic. Just felt the urge to write something down here… first post! Yay!
What is this, “I,” that we all have; what is it exactly that we’re in possession of?
Is it anything to do with that name your parents gave you, or your social security card number, or your marriage certificate, or the “country,” you inhabit?
I think not! Take away all the names and what are you left with? A thing, stuff, without identity. A nameless being. . .
not even that… there is change and flux… the next moment is not guaranteed…
-Imp
By the dictionary, to exist means, to continue to live, live, or "continuance in living. That is how we define existence.
Now, let’s say a person faints and so he loses consciousness. Even though this person does not know that he exists but we know that he does. Similarly, plants exist but I believe they have no consciousness and so they don’t know that they exist similar to the person who lost consciousness and so does not know that he exists.
As for those who consider existence to be an illusion or a mystery, it doesn’t have to be. We define existence as living and not dead, so, that means we exist if we are alive. That’s our perspective. If some alien or God perceives our existence as something else it’s their prerogative, our definition of existence still remains the same, and that is - that we exist!
If so, the dream is existance,
Go ahead try and wake up Neo
Hi everybody,
I think that there is such a thing as doubting too much… Would you actually feel that you do not exist?
Also, certain words like “dream” have a tendency of having a mind of their own. As I recall it is used to describe what happens when we sleep…
no you do not exist.