Deliberate Consent Violation

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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:45 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Have you ever heard of "basic training" mowk?

You're being trained how to be a soldier, something, incidentally, that you volunteered for.

Here's the deal with deities and spirits ...

Much of what I'm saying is common knowledge to millions of people on earth.

So don't come at me like I'm the "only person"

I'll get to the rest later, crunched for time right now.


Hmm... I guess there wasn't a rest.

I'm an atheist as well.

Existence is much more complicated than you're making it out to be though.

And no, my argument doesn't hinge on deities when it comes to the concept of approach escalation in a sex dimorphic self recursively intelligent species.

That speaks for itself.

This argument actually pulled me out of hell, which that one little phrase of mine turned this into a deity thread.

Who was the judge? Themselves.

Judging my heart with theirs.

That's how it works. Now you know. You have trials with superpositioned hearts. It's much more efficient than this format, in different dimensions you can do lifetime readings, which is saying that it's as easy for a 5th dimensional being to see your entire life to this point as you seeing a tree with your eyes.

I used to think like you mowk, until I was shown first hand... even then, it took me years to actually figure out that there was a spirit world!!

I got hit like a freight train by the spirit world and it still took me about 6 years to acknowledge it.

I certainly don't expect you to do better than me!!!

Especially when you're not even really being hit by it.

I know in some very important ways, what it's like to be you mowk. The reverse is not true for you to me.

This is not a "we'll just agree to disagree". You haven't been through it.

I hate the Bible.

But I'll tell you something Jesus said, he said those who don't know and have faith are greater than those who know ("know", meaning, they've been shown)

Now, I take offense to that teaching, but lots of people just don't know.

I'll tell you this though. Millions of people know my more advanced learnings. BILLIONS!!! Of people know for a fact that spirits exist
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:05 pm

Well then, let 'them' tell me. Until that happens, you aren't posing a sane argument. An atheist doesn't believe in deities. Not many, not one, not any.

Can the world be a mystery, with wonders beyond imagination? Sure, It doesn't take deities or spirits to prove that to me. I've already stated, I guess and guess again. So that whole faith/knowing question is really getting boring. I can't stop you from having a savior complex. I can't stop you from what thinking you think. That is between you and yours.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:12 pm

Mowk wrote:Well then, let 'them' tell me. Until that happens, you aren't posing a sane argument. An atheist doesn't believe in deities. Not many, not one, not any.


An atheist can believe in the spirit world.

They just don't believe that it implies perfect creation.

All theistic myths imply perfect creation for there here and now and for all time.

If you don't believe in an intelligent being responsible for perfect creation, you are an atheist.

Deists swallow the whole thing down.

"God is perfect and this is just gods will, not even a leaf on a tree can tremble without gods perfect permission"

That's theism.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:31 pm

Well you called them deities and an atheist doesn't believe in deities. Not many, not one, not any. There is no experience in this life time that I can think of spirits in anyway beyond metaphor. The notion of a team having cooperation, an individual with an animated enthusiasm for a project, the notion of a spiritual connection. But spirits as individual entities? Nope nothing there.

No Greek gods, no animal gods, no Catholic gods, no deities. That's an atheist. It doesn't matter what attributes are given them, what powers of creation or control they are afforded. Yet what powers do you characterize your spirits with? Nope, no spirits with powers either. That would still be a belief in gods, and someone that believes in that sort of spirit is a theist if one or a deist if many. Same damn thing. Just a matter of splitting them up or lumping them together. No humans with X-man like powers either. Fiction.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:43 pm

Mowk wrote:Well you called them deities and an atheist doesn't believe in deities. Not many, not one, not any. There is no experience in this life time that I can think of spirits in anyway beyond metaphor. The notion of a team having cooperation, an individual with an animated enthusiasm for a project, the notion of a spiritual connection. But spirits as individual entities? Nope nothing there.

No Greek gods, no animal gods, no Catholic gods, no deities. That's an atheist. It doesn't matter what attributes are given them, what powers of creation or control they are afforded. Yet what powers do you characterize your spirits with? Nope, no spirits with powers either. That would still be a belief in gods, and someone that believes in that sort of spirit is a theist if one or a deist if many. Same damn thing. Just a matter of splitting them up or lumping them together. No humans with X-man like powers either. Fiction.


Beings have what are called "empowerments".

Let me ask you this:

Do you believe in spirits?

Now remember, I stated that billions of beings know they exist --- but I'm asking you personally
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:54 pm

Billions of people know God exists in the same manner and degree of knowing. I can't give you billions of beings knowing anything. I can't even give you one example. You are using your deities in an argument to prove deities exist. You can't get a bunch of fictional being together to prove they aren't fictional. That wouldn't meet the condition of proving anything.

Define spirits, can you show me one? I believe ideas exist, an idea as a construct can be defined. We can share these ideas with each other, with out having to see them. Define a spirit is such a way that we can share the experience of them. Like I can share the idea of a game with you. Likely I don't believe in spirits in the same manner I can related to the notion of ideas. Even though I can't show you one, I can share one with you. I can work on the manifesting the idea in a documentation like manner. But then I'm just showing you the documentation and not the idea itself. I could think about this idea and slide myself into a eMRI, and show you what the brain patterns are when I hold this idea in my mind but I'm still not showing you the idea itself, just how it is manifest in an eMRI.

It is likely you can't show me a spirit either. Can you show me documentation of one that can't be faked. Can you show me some measuring device that can manifest them in the same way an eMRI manifests the oxygen consumption in the brain of a person with such a thought as an idea?

The short answer is no, I don't 'know' of spirits in the manner I think you are using the term, so I don't believe in them in that manner.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:55 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Mowk wrote:Well you called them deities and an atheist doesn't believe in deities. Not many, not one, not any. There is no experience in this life time that I can think of spirits in anyway beyond metaphor. The notion of a team having cooperation, an individual with an animated enthusiasm for a project, the notion of a spiritual connection. But spirits as individual entities? Nope nothing there.

No Greek gods, no animal gods, no Catholic gods, no deities. That's an atheist. It doesn't matter what attributes are given them, what powers of creation or control they are afforded. Yet what powers do you characterize your spirits with? Nope, no spirits with powers either. That would still be a belief in gods, and someone that believes in that sort of spirit is a theist if one or a deist if many. Same damn thing. Just a matter of splitting them up or lumping them together. No humans with X-man like powers either. Fiction.


Beings have what are called "empowerments".

Let me ask you this:

Do you believe in spirits?

Now remember, I stated that billions of beings know they exist --- but I'm asking you personally


I'll add to this. Step father told me a story. The story was this:

He was camping in the redwoods, sleeping, and his uncle came to him in a dream, and said "I just died."

Anyways, stepfather was so moved by this dream that he broke up camp and went to the mother that bore him, and she said, "yes, Alvin died last night"

Now!! Billions of people have stories like this!!
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:13 pm

Cool, billions of people believe in stories. Billions of people jump to conclusions about these stories too. They are just guesses as to what took place. I had a dream the other night I was on a tropical island, guess what, I woke up and it's 12 degrees out.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:18 pm

Mowk wrote:Cool, billions of people believe in stories. Billions of people jump to conclusions about these stories too. They are just guesses as to what took place. I had a dream the other night I was on a tropical island, guess what, I woke up and it's 12 degrees out.

Now your cherry picking.

Dude. Now you're just being an asshole.

When I tell the entire species that they're doing sex wrong. I give arguments.

Spirit world exists whether you like it or not.

Maybe you have "spirit envy"

Trust me, it's not an envy you want to have.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:53 pm

You told me one second hand account of a story told to you, and you're telling it to me as a third hand account. Then claim billions of people believe stories like these. And I say cool stories but they don't prove anything and I'm cherry picking, and being an asshole?

It's not like you haven't told the story a dozen times in other threads either. I've gone way back and read of few of your arguments. Way back to what I believe was your first post. You have learned nothing but to spin your words differently. And that goes for your account of sex dimorphism as well. I've looked that up in a few places as well. But you don't seem to remember those questions. Sex dimorphism is the result of the adaptation of sexual reproduction. The evolution of sexual reproduction predates sexual dimorphism. And you're going to use the example of a ornate duck as proof humans don't have consensual sex because it's used as an ornament like the music of James Taylor or driving a fast noisy car? Attracting the attention of the other sex is how reproduction gets done. Pare bonding is an adaptation for how reproduction in some species gets done. There are other species that exhibit no pair bonding. There are species living on the planet that reproduce without sex. There is a species of bird that lays it's eggs in an other species nest because it's working for that species.

You make wild claims of facts that aren't facts, then simply turn your attention to other wild statements that aren't facts either. Back up your claims with some actual evidence, that can be verified. You don't bother to address those circumstances where your facts aren't facts, you just twist your story around to spin it in an other direction. Parthenogenesis https://www.thoughtco.com/parthenogenesis-373474.

But lets take us back in the way back machine where you argued the purpose of all life was? And you continue to spin the theory with more and more contradictory statements. Well I didn't mean deities I meant spirits. I didn't mean powers I meant empowerment. You've claimed your a king, you've claimed you've lived 400 billion years, you've claimed you know what a trillion year old would think.

Let's go back in time a few years and look at the sorts of claims you have made, the sort of arguments you've presented. You're not getting any better at explaining things, but you are getting real good at spinning things and spinning even wilder generalizations. You don't belong on a philosophy website, you belong behind a typewriter writing screenplays for fiction movies, where green screens and CGI can make your stories look real. Get a grip on reality or write fiction stories, I don't care which. But don't claim you're the greatest philosopher the planet has ever seen.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:10 pm

Let's begin.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184426&p=2435667#p2435667

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=187302&p=2513213#p2513213

You even describe them as stories:
I have a little story to tell....


It's important to understand that before I came to this earth I lived trillions of years, and almost everyone I knew is in eternal death now.... everyone in your universe is a new entity to me. I began to absorb all of your karma almost immediately, though I'm not the only being on earth who is doing this on the space time continuum in this universe or even planet. You must understand that this species has barely begun to understand the magnitude of it's relationship to behavior and outcome.

Like I said, I'm not your Son of Man, I'm just passing through... I'm destroying all of your prophesies while I'm here and am re-creating the world in a better image.

Your handlers here are going to have to face me in judgement before I leave again into my eternal rest.


And in this thread.

This argument actually pulled me out of hell, which that one little phrase of mine turned this into a deity thread.

Not one little phrase man.

You've been telling the same little stories since you got here. They have grown into huge stories. Mythic tales. Songs will be sung of the conquests of Ecmandu.

And you blame everyone else that your stories aren't compelling? Stories of great fiction. They have always been. Great stories for a screen play, but as far a philosophy goes... not so much. That's likely why you've been banned from every other philosophy forum on the planet. You even asked Carleas to allow you a place in creative writing. He should have jumped at the opportunity.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:35 pm

Mowk,

You don't get me yet. You really don't. Do I want songs to be sang about ecmandu evermore ?

No. That's zero sum, and I hate every aspect of zero sum realities.

You're projecting things about yourself on me, as have others on this board.

I don't want to be the fucking king (even though it was given to me) and I sure as hell don't want to be eternalized as a memorialized eternal song.

I want, more than anything that I could ever want, for all of us to be these things, not just me.

Why do you think I'm so mad at monoamourous couples!?!! Because they celebrate being THE ONLY ONE... for me that's nothing to celebrate, it's something to grieve for trillions of years.

You're trying to project that I'm as shallow or more shallow than you. It's just not true.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:55 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Mowk,

You don't get me yet. You really don't. Do I want songs to be sang about ecmandu evermore ?

No. That's zero sum, and I hate every aspect of zero sum realities.

You're projecting things about yourself on me, as have others on this board.

I don't want to be the fucking king (even though it was given to me) and I sure as hell don't want to be eternalized as a memorialized eternal song.

I want, more than anything that I could ever want, for all of us to be these things, not just me.

Why do you think I'm so mad at monoamourous couples!?!! Because they celebrate being THE ONLY ONE... for me that's nothing to celebrate, it's something to grieve for trillions of years.

You're trying to project that I'm as shallow or more shallow than you. It's just not true.


I was joking. Satirically, but joking all the same. You do take yourself too seriously. We don't live for trillions of years, we just get this one lifetime as far as I'm aware. And for some it's really short. If you wanna get all bunged up about it for trillions of years that's your fantasy. No one is even going to be aware, my wife and her husband were even here in another 100 years. Oh there may be a photo or two that survives but the narrative will go something like, Oh I think that's your nutty great great uncle and aunt on your mother's fathers side, but my aren't those old photos interesting, what's that thing with four wheels in the background, I think they use to call them cars, and a hundred years from then, our memories will be resting at the bottom of some land fill. I don't have a problem with that.

Sorry dude, you're not painting yourself in a manner I want to get. Guilty as charged.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:20 am

Well mowk,

I hate to be the one to break it to you.

We do live forever.

I know this because of what happened when I sought eternal death...

Oh man o man was that a nightmare!

When that didn't work, I tried to destroy existence...

Man o man o man o man...

That's a hell I'd never want to go back to!!

Existence is a complicated place.

We do reincarnate, BUT!!! The former incarnations never die!!

It's both at the same time. Like I said: weird.

Existence is even weirder than that, but I'll just leave it there for now.

When people ask me to demonstrate this; I tell them that if they ever died (past, present, future), I mean like dead, dead.. they couldn't be here right now, as the moment is a subset of their entire being. By virtue of being here right now, it's impossible for you to ever die as a continuity of consciousness.

Those are my words on the matter.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:09 am

Well again, I'll cross that bridge if I get to it. You've still managed not to be convincing.

When people ask me to demonstrate this; I tell them that if they ever died (past, present, future), I mean like dead, dead.. they couldn't be here right now, as the moment is a subset of their entire being. By virtue of being here right now, it's impossible for you to ever die as a continuity of consciousness.


Besides being rather convoluted thinking, it's also not a demonstration of anything. If I died in the past I wouldn't be here, If I died in the present I wouldn't be here, When I die in the future, be it seconds from now or years from now I won't be here past that moment. This moment for me in experience is only a subset of the time I have experienced. It is not a subset, as you suggest of all time. Nope, not even close to a rational argument.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:36 am

YOU is a continuity of consciousness.

If YOU ever die, your past, present and future self would cease to exist.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:03 am

If YOU ever die, your past, present and future self would cease to exist.


Mowk wrote:If I died in the past I wouldn't be here, If I died in the present I wouldn't be here, When I die in the future, be it seconds from now or years from now I won't be here past that moment.


I will have no future. And it will be only be "not me" moving forward from that point in time. For a while I'll be a memory and then, well I'll be no more, no present no future. Alpha and omega, My own beginning and my own end.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby MagsJ » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:43 am

Forget Toys Are Us.. more like Samsara Is He.. and some here think meditation a fruitless task.

Suffering is obviously preferable to practice.. for the ill-advised un-spirited, but the required effort is so minimal, that certain minds cannot understand the hesitation to action for instant benefit gained.

I am genius! they cry.. but all they exhibit is the opposite and continue to lie through gritted teeth.. lie about the claim put forth in this here thread.

The End
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:31 pm

I don't think she understands that I tried to destroy my souls forever. That's when things got really nasty in my life. So then I tried to destroy existence forever, and it got even nastier.

Through that process however, I can certainly come back to you and say this:

It's impossible
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:55 pm

I hate to be the one to break it to you.
We do live forever.


almost everyone I knew is in eternal death now


...before I leave again into my eternal rest.


These are the sorts of contradictions you've stated. "We do live forever" and "everyone I knew is in eternal death now. and ....before I leave again into my eternal rest."

Before "I" was born, there was a conception, before that there was some planning for, and before that I just wasn't. After the conception developed, but not enough, there was a premature birth, and getting stuck in an incubator, where there was a further development of an ability to breath and digest food. The process of that life turning into a Me took some time after that. In those nows I've spent 60 years on this rock and here we are in this present. I don't know when I will perish, but death is inevitable, and after that I will exist for a time as a memory in someone else's mind, and then disappear. End of story, no future after that. I won't be in eternal rest, that would imply some I that is resting. I just won't be. An "I" developed into, had some good times and some bad times, and I will dim out. The body will be cremated, and the ashes will be spread into the wind. What ever celebration of life that takes place will not be for me, for I won't be. It will be for the sake of a memory of what I was.

And I'm cool with that. That is the appearance of it and the guess I am living by. If by some chance I've gotten it wrong, well then, based on the new information... I'll likely have to guess again.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:05 pm

You'll have to guess again.

But that's not really the point. The point is my inconsistencies.

The spirit world has taken me through many dimensions of space and time over the years, and depending on where I've travelled, I have a theory.

I've found the spirit world very vindictive ...
Like I try to destroy my souls forever, and I'm sent to a place where nobody knows you anymore...

My life has for a while now, been like the John Lennon song "instant karma"

Basically, I'm being trained. I don't know why.

I actually think I was murdered on 'this timeline, about 11 years ago. One of my theories is that this has all been my afterlife since then and that none of you are real. I just pretend like you are.

Some of the things I've had to wrap my mind around would give almost any being a headache...

I have about 5 theories for what happened 11 years ago.

That's when THE CHANGE happened!!

What I do to hold reality. Orientation is to meditate on universal truths "nobody wants their consent violated". "Zero sum realities are consent violating by nature"

Things like this.

Is what I do to keep myself centered after so much chaos for so long.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Mowk » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:11 pm

To be fair. My mind is never concluded in a thought. I talk to my self sometimes, as if it were a conversation with someone else. And the strange part is all though the "voice" that answers sounds like my own, it often disagrees with my assessment of things. Convincingly some times. IT is a mystery which I do not wish to objectify or personify. I respect IT for what it is, insight and intuition.

If I have to guess again, well, I'm use to that, by now. That's what happens when the idea of 'knowing' 'absolutely' anything seems absurd, and face each moment as it comes. I guess I really don't agree with your notion of universal law. The rules are in flux.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Carleas » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:32 pm

Ecmandu, are you schizophrenic? I ask sincerely and without judgement.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:28 pm

Carleas wrote:Ecmandu, are you schizophrenic? I ask sincerely and without judgement.


I'm diagnosed schizo-obsessive.
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Re: Deliberate Consent Violation

Postby Carleas » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:49 pm

What credence do you give that diagnosis? Does the diagnosis affect the way you evaluate your ideas/thoughts/experiences, or those of other people?
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