Page 2 of 2

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:31 pm
by Zero_Sum
This thread is 100% Kosher.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:07 pm
by Silhouette
I'm currently neither for or against anti-semitism. Given my limited knowledge of Jews and Judaism, more evidence is needed to sway me either way, but more importantly to me it's never seemed like evidence either way would be that valuable or interesting in the grand scheme of things. I don't think everything is worth taking a stance on, such as whether or not tinfoil hats really do protect your head in any way.

Either way, any anti-semitism seems to me like an altogether different issue to whether or not it's acceptable to spam somebody else's youtube videos on one of the main forums with little (in this case nothing) to say for yourself. Give the latter a fancy (relatively) contemporary and "super-edgy" pop-culture name like "red-pilling" or not, it's still far from what the main forums are currently supposed to be for (though a new section could be considered?) and isn't even an issue of free speech like I already argued. But whether or not you agree with the former, IT IS a violation of free speech to attempt to silence potentially offensive views.

That's the thing about free speech and open debate - the content of the views and whether you like them is irrelevant (though better quality is preferred at least as any conversation about them develops), but the style of the views does matter.

To quit the forum because you can't understand any of these distinctions is retarded.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:18 pm
by Zero_Sum
Silhouette wrote:I'm currently neither for or against anti-semitism. Given my limited knowledge of Jews and Judaism, more evidence is needed to sway me either way, but more importantly to me it's never seemed like evidence either way would be that valuable or interesting in the grand scheme of things. I don't think everything is worth taking a stance on, such as whether or not tinfoil hats really do protect your head in any way.

Either way, any anti-semitism seems to me like an altogether different issue to whether or not it's acceptable to spam somebody else's youtube videos on one of the main forums with little (in this case nothing) to say for yourself. Give the latter a fancy (relatively) contemporary and "super-edgy" pop-culture name like "red-pilling" or not, it's still far from what the main forums are currently supposed to be for (though a new section could be considered?) and isn't even an issue of free speech like I already argued. But whether or not you agree with the former, IT IS a violation of free speech to attempt to silence potentially offensive views.

That's the thing about free speech and open debate - the content of the views and whether you like them is irrelevant (though better quality is preferred at least as any conversation about them develops), but the style of the views does matter.

To quit the forum because you can't understand any of these distinctions is retarded.


Be careful, you almost sound like an anti semite there, I'm watching you.

We're God's chosen people therefore we are beyond all forms of criticism, any kind of criticism towards us is anti semitic.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:37 pm
by WendyDarling
Peter wrote
now, how is someone calling for the death of Jews, any different
to the Jews? you cannot allow for speech, any speech to be tolerated
if it calls for or demands death to or violence to any person, people,
race, creed, color, sexual orientation..... because of history,
we know that violence has been acted upon people because
of race, creed, color, sexual orientation....

Quote where this is being done on ILP.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:42 pm
by Peter Kropotkin
WendyDarling wrote:Peter wrote
now, how is someone calling for the death of Jews, any different
to the Jews? you cannot allow for speech, any speech to be tolerated
if it calls for or demands death to or violence to any person, people,
race, creed, color, sexual orientation..... because of history,
we know that violence has been acted upon people because
of race, creed, color, sexual orientation....

Quote where this is being done on ILP.



K: I have neither the time, energy or inclination to search out ILP for
such a thing.. that would require me to go through a whole lot of
threads and post and I don't have the time, energy........

but I wasn't really refering to ILP specifically.. although I have personally
seen such threats to liberals, such as all liberals should be executed
or expelled from this country... again, I don't have the time, energy.....

I am more interested in the big picture.... and the anti-semitism of ILP
has been clearly on displayed for a long time around here.....

the point lies in the poisoning the well which has a long history in the U.S..
and is the reason for anti-hillary feeling in this country (among other aspects
such as the dislike of liberals for example) which is the target of my
statement......this battle against poisoning the well is really an argument
against the myths, bias, prejudice and superstitions that is indoctrinated
into us from childhood, really birth..........that is part of what the
enlightenment was about.... to encourage people to think for themselves
and engage in thinking about such matters as god, freedom and immortality.....
without recourse to authority..... and the myths and habits and biases
and prejudices and superstitions indoctrinations of childhood is part of
the poisoning the well that society engages with... if we poison the well
against say Jews, then we promote the myths, biases, prejudices and
habits and superstitions that has plagued society since its inception.....

it is not a specific charge as much as a general charge against
those who promote myths and prejudices and biases against
a specific person, people, creed, color or sexual orientation....
and based upon childhood indoctrinations that are false to begin with.....

or said another way, those indoctrinations do poison the well against
specific persons, people, creeds, color or sexual orientation...
and that is why we must work on to discover and eliminate
our childhood indoctrinations which give us cover to
discriminate against persons or people like Hillary or
Jews or gays..... it is not one specific matter we must engage
with, it is a whole range of things... that is why this is so long
in happening...… it exists in history and has a long history...…

I cannot speak for your indoctrinations, your myths, your biases,
your prejudices.. for they are yours...…. I can only speak to the need
for you to understand why it is so important for you to engage with
and understand your childhood indoctrinations.. the myths and biases...…
that you engage with.....

to eliminate the well of a little poison is certainly a life well spent
and far more productive then most people.....

Kropotkin

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:54 pm
by Fixed Cross
I think it is more a question of consistency, where it become increasingly normal to disregard antisemitism when people talk of racism, it is a lot as if you need to be antisemite to not be racist. In reality Id say its perfectly consistent that Carleas removed that name, its kind of hard to justify having a website with festering racism on it, that includes antisemitism. If there had ever been an intelligent discussion in terms of race, it would be different, but the racial perspective, even though it speaks to tastes which are real, is not intellectual, it brings forth no plans, no strategies, no moral ideas that work. It has no value to think of races, as within each race there are exalted and degenerate people and tendencies - the only viable racist approach to race is to speculate on how and which races can be best mixed, like Nietzsche suggested. But even that is relatively pointless.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:06 pm
by Thanathots
ILP is indeed fascist, and not in a cool way.

Why did I receive two warnings and then a ban for images? Are images not allowed here?

ILP rules don't make any sense, it's like the mods just roll a dice on when to give a warning to fuck with people.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:17 pm
by Silhouette
Thanathots wrote:ILP is indeed fascist, and not in a cool way.

Why did I receive two warnings and then a ban for images? Are images not allowed here?

ILP rules don't make any sense, it's like the mods just roll a dice on when to give a warning to fuck with people.

Fascism is totally non-cool when it's against you, eh?

It's kinda super obvious why you got warnings and a ban, although you may not agree with the reasoning - either validly or invalidly. Societal norms emerge, and unless you have some kind of mental impediment, you learn what they are - currently anything perceived as anti-Semitic is a no-no whether it was intended as such or not. And I'm sure you know this very well, you don't have to act all shocked and appalled. Obviously images are allowed here, hence the "Img" button above the message box, and obviously you know that some images are ok and some are not - again, whether you agree or not - no need to take the dim view, be intelligent.

Personally, I'm fine with anti-Semitism being discussed, both for and against, just the same as any topic. You don't have to be funny or post pictures of stereotypes or anything special just because it's a taboo. Just talk about it as you would any other subject... it's not hard.

Is ILP actually fascist? Not in the slightest.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:13 pm
by Carleas
Silhouette wrote:Personally, I'm fine with anti-Semitism being discussed, both for and against, just the same as any topic. You don't have to be funny or post pictures of stereotypes or anything special just because it's a taboo. Just talk about it as you would any other subject... it's not hard.

I think this is the right approach to any kind of bigotry. People have the right to argue on behalf of their beliefs, even where those beliefs are offensive, and even where they're obviously wrong.

By contrast, posting racist propaganda pictures isn't at all a defense of a belief, it's pure ad hominem and makes any kind of discussion impossible. Indeed, that's why it's used: to exclude people who disagree by insulting them until they just leave.

Thanathots, you know why you were banned, you just don't like it. You want to avoid having to think through your ideas and make cogent arguments in defense of your beliefs. I get it, your beliefs are ridiculous and don't stand up to scrutiny, even the weak scrutiny of your own internal doubts as you try to put them into words. But the inability to find any good reason to hold your beliefs doesn't turn racist cartoons into one.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:42 pm
by Thanathots
No, what confused me was that the images were removed but the links stayed. Why? I mean, I can kind of see why the first image was removed, but the 3 in the other post were just facts in image form.

I expected that either all of it would be removed, or none.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:05 am
by Serendipper
Fixed Cross wrote:The sandbox is public view. The Rant house is not.

In that case, Rant House is subject to censorship and Sandbox is not.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:09 am
by Serendipper
Carleas wrote:Thanathots, you know why you were banned, you just don't like it.


Dangit... I always miss the fun stuff :(

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:19 am
by Serendipper
Thanathots wrote:ILP is indeed fascist, and not in a cool way.

Why did I receive two warnings and then a ban for images? Are images not allowed here?

ILP rules don't make any sense, it's like the mods just roll a dice on when to give a warning to fuck with people.

Last spring we were getting away with all sorts of shenanigans to the point folks were questioning if the mods ever did anything at all... so what the heck did you do?

This is a cool place and I can't imagine there is much merit to your accusations. Carleas is the most chill admin you'll find.

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:24 pm
by Thanathots
Thanathots wrote:No, what confused me was that the images were removed but the links stayed. Why? I mean, I can kind of see why the first image was removed, but the 3 in the other post were just facts in image form.

I expected that either all of it would be removed, or none.


Still no explanation?

Re: ILP is fascist

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:55 pm
by Carleas
I was on the fence about the links, but left them on the idea that a Daily Stormer link is its own warning label. I'm not sure that was the right decision.