Just out of curiosity...

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Just out of curiosity...

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:01 am

Now that the FCC voted 3 Republicans to 2 Democrats to end "net neutrality" how might that impact on those of us who come here?

Technically, in other words, what might happen?

From the Daily Beast: https://www.thedailybeast.com/fcc-votes ... -to-access
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:58 pm

I would be surprised if it had any measurable impact on anyone's ability to access this site.

That article isn't a great background piece. It focuses mostly on a character assassination of Pai, ignores that the Obama-appointed chair of the FTC submitted comments supporting repeal, gets the history of net neutrality wrong, and doesn't discuss the actual arguments that both sides have to support their position.

Net neutrality is a difficult issue. There are good arguments for it, but there are also good arguments against it, and both sides have big businesses interests behind them. Both sides also have strong arguments that their position benefits consumers.

The debate has been highly politicized, and picked up as a cause largely because of misleading rhetoric propagated by content companies that have a strong business interest in keeping the rules in place. Not surprisingly, the companies that are serving content find it easier to make their case to consumers than do the 'plumbing' companies who are doing something wrong if consumers notice that they're there. It also doesn't help that it's the Trump administration, so that a complex policy issue gets tribalized as Trump versus the Resistance.

This is a more impartial summary of the issue (though the end makes it clear that this author is not actually impartial either).
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:28 pm

Thanks to both of you for posting that information. I've been curious about that also myself.^^^^
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:38 pm

Carleas wrote: I would be surprised if it had any measurable impact on anyone's ability to access this site.


That's good to know. I think.

Carleas wrote: That article isn't a great background piece. It focuses mostly on a character assassination of Pai, ignores that the Obama-appointed chair of the FTC submitted comments supporting repeal, gets the history of net neutrality wrong, and doesn't discuss the actual arguments that both sides have to support their position.


Figures. It's from a liberal website. Though I'm sure the conservative websites have their own rendition of it.

Carleas wrote: Net neutrality is a difficult issue. There are good arguments for it, but there are also good arguments against it, and both sides have big businesses interests behind them. Both sides also have strong arguments that their position benefits consumers.


Two words: conflicting goods

Carleas wrote: The debate has been highly politicized, and picked up as a cause largely because of misleading rhetoric propagated by content companies that have a strong business interest in keeping the rules in place. Not surprisingly, the companies that are serving content find it easier to make their case to consumers than do the 'plumbing' companies who are doing something wrong if consumers notice that they're there. It also doesn't help that it's the Trump administration, so that a complex policy issue gets tribalized as Trump versus the Resistance.


Two more words [legislatively]: political economy

As for the part about dasein...I'll spare you.

It's in there though. :wink:
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:06 pm

iambiguous wrote:As for the part about dasein...I'll spare you.

The river that flows through Paris?
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:12 pm

Carleas wrote:
iambiguous wrote:As for the part about dasein...I'll spare you.

The river that flows through Paris?


Pretty sure that is the Seine river.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby iambiguous » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:50 pm

Carleas wrote:
iambiguous wrote:As for the part about dasein...I'll spare you.

The river that flows through Paris?


Actually, I was thinking of the other one. But, sure, that too.
He was like a man who wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with his impotence; and had only me, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest. John Fowles

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
Then here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=185296
And here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194382
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Meno_ » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:57 pm

And then , just because its in the light , it may not deserve the other one to live up to its allusion to being of it.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:07 pm

Subject: No more net neutrality? Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What is the logic of this move, what does it mean?



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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:01 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
What is the logic of this move, what does it mean?

think it means that what google has been doing is now legal.



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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Yesterday at 12:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, legal for all access providers. A new way for the wealthy to make more money. It's all about money. Providers can now sell premium access to anyone willing to pay. No pay? Slow service.

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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Yesterday at 2:59 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Of course it sucks and I think it will be undone.
Even the big tech grants are rebelling.
Probably because on a slow and restricted internet no one is gong to bother with internet at all.



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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Yesterday at 6:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ah ok

lol

Breitbart wrote:
The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) passed the FCC’s “Restoring Internet Freedom Order” on Thursday, which will repeal the agency’s 2015 net neutrality regulation.
Chairman Pai told Fox News host Tucker Carlson on Monday, “I think what net neutrality repealed would actually mean is we once again have a free and open Internet. The government would not be regulating how anyone in the Internet service providers, how anyone else in the internet economy manages their networks.”

The FCC’s Restoring Internet Freedom order will reclassify the Internet as an “information service” compared to the FCC’s 2015 net neutrality order, which regulated the Internet as a public monopoly. The order will also require Internet service providers (ISPs) such as Comcast or Verizon to release transparency reports detailing their practices towards consumers and businesses.

The FCC’s net neutrality repeal order will also restore the Federal Trade Commission’s (FTC) traditional authority and expertise to regulate and litigate unfair, deceptive, and anti-competitive telecommunications practices without onerous regulations and increased cost.

On Monday the FCC and the FTC agreed to share the responsibility to police unfair ISP practices regarding unfair or deceptive practices to block, throttle, or promote web content.

Chairman Pai explained in an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal why repealing net neutrality will preserve a free and open internet.


Yeah that makes sense.

"Public Monopoly" is literally Socialist tyranny.



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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Yesterday at 6:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Lol "Net Neutrality" needs to be understood in the same vein as "Gender Neutrality".
I.e. an attack on the internet.

That Google and Facebook are for "Net Neutrality" gave me some pause.

I now see "Net Neutrality" means that only those sites are going to be allowed that are neutering influences.



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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Yesterday at 9:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah makes sense. If Obozo, Gulag, Fakebook, etc. all wanted Net Neuter-ality then I am tempted to oppose it without even knowing any of the details. But this breakdown is helpful.

I heard someone panicking over it yesterday, they said “Trump just repealed net neutrality!” Someone asked, “What does that mean?” and they replied, “it means websites can charge you to use them now”. I was like um they can already do that...

Zzz



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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Yesterday at 11:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I'm glad you guys are keeping up with what's happening here.

There is still a lot of fake information flying around about this.

Thanks for keeping me informed.
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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Yesterday at 1:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Yeah makes sense. If Obozo, Gulag, Fakebook, etc. all wanted Net Neuter-ality then I am tempted to oppose it without even knowing any of the details. But this breakdown is helpful.

I heard someone panicking over it yesterday, they said “Trump just repealed net neutrality!” Someone asked, “What does that mean?” and they replied, “it means websites can charge you to use them now”. I was like um they can already do that...

Zzz

LOL


Fucking gold.



But yeah. That was my sense too - 'Wait what, Obolko did something moral? Eh no. I don't think so.'

Obolkonet was just a net where eunuchs worked around the clock to sabotage and censor people with potential, will.



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PostSubject: Re: No more net neutrality? Yesterday at 6:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Obolkonet", hahahaha. Fucking priceless.



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"It would be wise to exercise caution with one's wishes." --Penny Royal AI


Seems Net Neutrality meant the darkroom government decided which people could and which could not reach the public. It meant net-neutering. Like gender-neutrality is a fancy word for castration.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:05 pm

Why oh why would you copy and paste the whole page? That is barely readable. The majority of what you posted is not content, it's noise.

Even assuming that the best way to make your point here is to parrot a point that was made elsewhere, there are at least two better options:
1) copy and paste the actual text you're trying to show people (i.e. not the number of posts a user has made etc.) by deleting the parts you aren't trying to show people; or
2) just put a link to the post you want people to read from.

Either of those would make the point you're trying to make/repeat here clearer.


And why are you even parroting e.g. someone saying "'Obolkonet', hahahaha. Fucking priceless." That's the verbal equivalent of a Facebook like, what does that add to this discussion?
Good god man.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby James S Saint » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:15 pm

The distinction is that now instead of having a public government choosing what information is controlling your beliefs, you have the shadow, corporate government far more insidiously painting your worldview, against which you have no defense at all (which is why they exist).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
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As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:53 pm

At least the "corporate government" is a devil-we-know. Corporations' motives are transparent as can be: they seek profit. The government is much less transparent, made up of elected representatives and life-tenure bureaucrats with motives from glory to greed to laziness to misguided principle etc.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby James S Saint » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:07 am

Carleas wrote:At least the "corporate government" is a devil-we-know. Corporations' motives are transparent as can be: they seek profit. The government is much less transparent, made up of elected representatives and life-tenure bureaucrats with motives from glory to greed to laziness to misguided principle etc.

So you know that one is the Devil and untouchable. And you suspect the other might be as well.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:20 pm

Let's not stretch the colloquialism too far. Whatever flaws corporations have, the government is rife with flaws of its own, and corporations are predictable.

Also of note:
Expert polling suggests that the issue is fairly uncertain:
Here are the results from 2013 (for a question about net consumer benefit), and here are results from 2014, asking more generally about whether it's "a good idea". Both show significant uncertainty, with the former leaning slightly opposed and the latter leaning more strongly in favor. I'd summarize as mostly uncertain, more likely good, but not because of consumer benefit.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby James S Saint » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:11 pm

Seriously, what do polls really mean to philosophers?
Last edited by James S Saint on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Mr Reasonable » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:04 am

Carleas wrote:
iambiguous wrote:As for the part about dasein...I'll spare you.

The river that flows through Paris?


I floated down that one on one of those tourist boats where they explain all the buildings in 5 languages as you float by them. Not bad.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby James S Saint » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:13 am

James S Saint wrote:Seriously, what do polls really mean to philosophers?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Do you mean philosophers who have an appropriate amount of epistemic humility? They should generally defer to experts in fields where they are not themselves experts, and thus to polls of those experts.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby James S Saint » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:18 am

Nullius en Verba.
Who took the poll?

"Nine out of ten doctors recommend..."
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:48 pm

The respondents are listed by name next to their responses, with links to their bios.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:33 pm

Carleas wrote:The respondents are listed by name next to their responses, with links to their bios.

Again, you very unscientifically divert. I didn't ask about who responded, but who formed and took the poll. Polls are used very thoroughly for deception (usually political) via tricky wording, forced dichotomy, interpretation bias, limited audience, ignored context,.... And you know that.

One cannot trust anything merely said to be "a poll", even if the claim is "a scientific poll".
      Nullius en Verba.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 25976
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:51 pm

This isn't an anonymous political poll. This is a poll of named experts, whose answers are public. If you have any doubt that any person listed actually answered the poll as they did, you can literally look up their contact info on their faculty bios [url]and reach out and ask them[/url].

You're getting hung up on the word "poll", and ascribing to this specific poll a lot of flaws that apply to most polls you're familiar with but that very clearly don't apply to this specific poll.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:01 pm

No. You are not seeing my objection.

A person designed the poll. Such polls are the trickery. Those who answer the polls are generally not aware of the trick and thus their answers are irrelevant.

Science knows that .. and so do you.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby Carleas » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:47 pm

It still sounds like you're inappropriately unjustifiedly applying things you believe about polls in general to a specific poll that is different in several relevant ways.

The question is on the page. The respondents are on the page. Their answers are on the page. You have all the information you need about this specific poll to identify the specific "trick", so start talking in specifics.
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Re: Just out of curiosity...

Postby James S Saint » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:16 am

To a philosopher, until you know, you don't know.

And in this case, the probability of complete legitimacy is pretty low anyway.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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