Saying that feeling shame does not make any sense, does not make any sense, in the sense (ha, ha) that it is a category error. Shame is interpersonal - it may or may not come from objective values, but it certainly need not. It is about having done something that my community, including myself, has a problem with. They don’t like it, they think God forbids it, they think it leads to negative consequences, they think it smells aweful, whatever. It’s a social mammal thing, and whatever your epiphenies have accomplished, you are probably still a social mammal even if you are an anti-social one. If you are a psychopath, well, then it’s not a category error.
Honestly. Can’t you see how fucked up it is to repeat this here, again. It is not relevent to the topic. Is it masochism? Are you trying to upset people by repeating something I am pretty sure everyone in the thread has responded to elsewhere in threads where it belongs?
See above.
How can it bring things down: since you are not abusive - at least from what I have seen - can string together rational arguments. You can lock people on you. It can seem like an interactive dialogue will take place. But all discussions will end up with you repeating your assertions and focusing on what you think and what the other person’s statement did or did not do FOR YOU. Rather than some other options like seeing what you are doing does to others. When you comment on this, it is always the implicit smug: I seem to make objectivists angry, uncomfortable. Not being able to imagine that there are effects and problematics ones from your behavior that have nothing to do with other people’s weaknesses and your bravery for having shucked off objective values. Not being able to imagine how what makes you uncomfortable affects the dynamic and the content of your discussions and your inability to, ironically enough, see the discussions accurately from other viewpoints than your own - hence your repeated, I make you uncomfortable smugness. How convenient.
Perfect example.
Nothing that can get a ban or even a warning from most moderators, unfortunately. An appearance of an open mind. And actually not that much appearance of being able to respond to specifics in other people’s responses. You are not the only one. Prismatic is like this also. A facade of responding to what you wrote. He’s not as smart as you are - and/or his not having English as mother tongue is a problem - but in any case it creates a morass. A bog.
You think this bog is because no one can face the horror that there may be no ground to their objective values. This may be a factor in some dialogues. But it is not the rule, however appealing that interpretation may be to you.
These kinds of patterns where a person cannot learn or shift interpretations but there is a facade of ‘rational’ dialogue destroys forums. Of course, as I said earlier, the community is ultimately responsible. We need to undo the training that allows us to conflate apparant rational dialogue from rational dialogue where both parties can learn. That is, the community after responding to these patterns and not seeing any change, could ignore/shun that person. BEcause in the end it is a form of trolling, just a subtler one and one that Carleas will never, ever intervene in.
I will do my best to live up to this shunning since shaming is not effective. The interesting development with the internet is that I can shun even if others do not. To be effective for the forum, it would need to be a majority shunning. But to be effective for me, it need not be. Of course if the general level of the dialogue is affected by those I shun, I may have to move on, but it’s not like the Amish. I can’t see you at the barn raising, even if the rest of the community still can.