Petition to unban lys

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Moderator: Carleas

I'd like lys to be allowed back into ILP

Poll ended at Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:40 am

signed
13
59%
no, keep her out
9
41%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:22 pm

Well I already knew since coming across so many of them but I went back and checked on the archives and Lyssa did post an exhorbitant amount of SATYR says of this and that and not only in rant but in rant not having anything necessarily to do with Iambiguous.
The fact remains that Satyr having been banned, despite what is thought ought to be, should be, could be posted, Lys broke the rule.

But also in Society, Government and Economics, Off Topic, Philosophy, I’m changing my race to African American (don't recall what that was.
Satyr says this.

A lot of what was posted by her in rant for instance on nihilism had nothing to do with Iambiguous but just being Satyr's mouthpiece.

I'm not much of a philosopher to speak of but in what way is that philosophy or science or anything? If Satyr is a father figure or surrogate he has to allow his children to grow up and to learn to think for themselves albeit I can see that Lys knows how to use her mind and to think for herslef. But perhaps she needs to learn this in other ways.

I think I'm finished here and there insofar as this Lys thing and her banning is concerned. If I indeed felt that her banning was unfair and unjust, that might make a difference. As it is though, I said my piece and to continue going on like this is just plain stupid in light of the fact that I've said all that I, myself and I can.

There are far more interesting places to be and discussions to be had in here.
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby AutSider » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:29 pm

AD, imagine if I took a thinker you admire, respect and agree with, and misconstrued his positions in order to make them easier to attack, made lies about his personality, and attacked him from where he cannot defend himself.

What would you do?
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Artimas » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:37 pm

I voted no, because I can see all the drama happening. I don't see a point in voting yes when all this drama is created from her.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

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"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phyllo » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:37 pm

Well I already knew since coming across so many of them but I went back and checked on the archives and Lyssa did post an exhorbitant amount of SATYR says of this and that and not only in rant but in rant not having anything necessarily to do with Iambiguous.
Looking at her last 25 posts: 1 was in Society, 1 in Philosophy, 2 in Off-topic (in Iambiguous' nihilism & uberman thread) and the rest were in Rant (Iambiguous' nihilism thread). So 92% about Iambiguous.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby AutSider » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:34 pm

Artimas wrote:I voted no, because I can see all the drama happening. I don't see a point in voting yes when all this drama is created from her.


Such an informed and thought-out opinion is always welcome. Thanks for your participation, dear sir.

And to think these kind of retards vote...
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Artimas » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:02 pm

Arbiter of Change wrote:
Artimas wrote:I voted no, because I can see all the drama happening. I don't see a point in voting yes when all this drama is created from her.


Such an informed and thought-out opinion is always welcome. Thanks for your participation, dear sir.

And to think these kind of retards vote...

No problem.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:26 pm

Arbiter of Change wrote:I don't think you understand what I meant.

Equality of opportunity pertains to law allowing the same freedom, aka, putting equal restrictions on everybody, aka all start the race from the same line and nothing obstructs them from finishing it except their own natural limitations.
Equality of outcome means that, since people are different, they must treated unequally in order to artificially make them equal, aka, you have to put more restrictions on the more competent ones, and artificially elevate the less competent ones - affirmative action would be an example of this.

They are only consistent if you think all people are, literally, equal, as this would mean that if you give equal opportunity to them, they all start from the same line, they will all finish the race the same.


I can create rules for my race that are the same for everyone, and anyone choosing to enter the race must abode by the same rules and outcomes.
The race is from here to there, going between the flags. If you go outside of the flags you will be thrown out of the race. Winner gets chocolate iceam, everyone else gets a hand chopped off.

Your argument is that the rules should be different to make everyone equal because some are faster than others, so that all will have the same opportunity. Like for example the slowest races get to go out of the flags a number of times.

So if we transport that to the actual situation in this thread, it would be like saying the most infracting posters should get more tolerance from the mods.

Lys crossed outside of a flag and we are petitioninng to let her back into the race.

So.... your point?
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby The Golden Turd » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:56 am

It was said in the other thread on this topic that Lys/Satyr have a tendency to explode when they feel threatened, pumping the forum full of incoherence in terms of mass quotes. Its relevant apparently, in the sense of on topic, but isn't even trolling properly, but rather qualifies a mass spam attack. There is a threshold for absorption of data, and it goes down when its not original data, they are clearly aware of this effect and so need to be banned for a while. I'm historically very pro free speech, always was for Satyr returning, not completely convinced Lys is even a real person.... but yeah, mechanically flooding the site to the point people can't read anymore is wrong, as its intentionally murdering the discussion for the protection of ego. Can a egoist engadge in a philosophical discussion? Yes, but the risk is this: Once it starts to hurt your security or sense of self, you can go close quarters or back off and quit, but you really don't have the right to evade and make a mockery of discussion. You put your ego on the line, its fair game. Its why in the US the right of privacy doesn't fully extend to public or famous figures, as free speech isn't just about the exchange of ideas, but the worth of such ideas by examining the kind of individual who puts it forth. Saul had a hard time as Paul, convincing people he had a authentic experience, Hieddegar will never be accepted as a legitimate philosopher due to his Esoteric Nazi Theology role.

So yeah, reinstate them after a few months. Outside of Satyr, I'm probably the most banned member of this site (I recall I actually complied with the bans against me when Joker and I was banned roughly the same time, but Joker came back much earlier with a different account).

I and SIATD are about the only ones ironically who respected the bans, and the latter was permabanned. In my case, not a single ban was legitimate, yet I followed through.

Its obvious the ban system doesn't work too well here. Yet, mechanical spamming does need to be countered, so short bans are appropriate.

And someone mentioned I was a KTS member.... I have a whopping total of two posts over there. This Turd is Carleas' Turd, homegrown and unflushable. Don't go blaming me on another forum, I'm very much a phenomena of this site alone.

Honestly, the spam issue needs resolved. We can't invite her back until that technical detail of her(his) goes away. That was the only real problem I recall Carleas/Only Humean had (outside a natural disgust and loathing for Satyr, which is very healthy, and sane, and hardly contradicts logic.... there are rules to logic, but overwhelming loathing and disgust for a individual is an aspect of the A Priori Natural Law already existing, and needs not be formally stated, as far as community organization is concerned. It is natural to desire to exclude the sick headed twisted fucks, it is TOLERANCE- the philosophical virtue we adopted under Aristotle for accepting Philosophers come under unexpected and disorderly modes.

Satyr can be completely wretched, disgusting, fucked up.... but the injunction to tolerance as philosophers, the requirement to open mindedness, only applies if they can show themselves to be philosophers. Diogenes was accepted because he was a great mind, who engaged and debated, inquired and sought less savory truths. Diogenes would of been rejected outright had all he done behaviorally was absurd and disgusting, without hint of a deeper motive of creed, much less intelligence.

The Spam they can put out sounds a lot like the latter. It is therefore not a contradiction of asserted A Priori structured Rules to act outside of the scope of logic, as Natural Law preexisted the rules in the first place. The extremes, demanding everyone falls under a single kind of comportment, accept virtually identical (and unnatural) logical fallacies is likewise equally invalid as its against the natural law, as only a subset of the population can fall under the sway of this thought, and most of the philosophers produced in history worth discussing would be excluded.

I don't therefore, think they have to change that much. They do need to be more honest in how they approach the dialectic. Spamming is bullshit, its only valid as a military tactic, to block communications. Communications is vital in philosophy.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby The Golden Turd » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:31 am

Oh, whoever it was who said I won't discuss or debate, you gotta PM me the thread. Half the site is unread posts, I've been engaged in very fierce debates about the history of Colchise regarding Jason and the Argonauts and it's supposed Egyptian origins for the last week, which involves a lot of research into sources.... sources next to no one reads and is hard as hell to track and interpret. I do this sort of thing ALL the time, and as a result, half the site goes unread here for me. If someone other that Zoot Allures have a desperate debate and are waiting for a reply, PM me the link, I more than likely don't even know you posted. I for example, didn't even know Lys was ranting in the thread I made for Erik where I claimed I was changing my race to African American. Its one of a hundred billion lit up, the discussion wasn't going anywhere because Zoots and Erik wanted to become Space-Nazis living on Jupiter ruling over the Solar System. Fine, whatever.... report to NASA, we will launch every skinhead into space.

I literally don't know which thread or discussion I denied you a discussion in. Its likely something incredibly lame and takes 2 seconds to crack. I spent a whole night last week answering a query Orbie had. I'm hardly evasive, I'll put the work behind it if its warranted, but you (each of you) are but one individual, and I only notice a handful of people around here. There are 2-3 people in this thread alone I know absolutely nothing about in terms of your beliefs or opinions. I know absolutely nothing about Artimas, little about Philo, very little about Arbiter of Change, wish I knew less about Arc and Phoneuturia (that shit rots the brain).

I couldn't begin to guess country of origin, political persuasion, ideology or philosophical ideas you hold. Why? Cause you don't stand out. Its not because your posts are exquisit and too refined, its because you don't stand out. Nothing in particular about you stand out, where I've read and said "This guy is on to something" or "This guy is a attention span deficient pot smoker pistingbgibberish". You've managed to achieve pure anonminity, despite having thousands of posts between you.

I only recall denying discussion to Periphial, and it was cause he outright lied, and was banned for it. I don't see the point in engaging a bold face liar on a forum, and he was banned for it. I would like to say I'm denying Zoots on the dualism /Non-Dualism debate, but he currently lacks a coherent position that can even be reasonably debated, once he gets some reading done (beyond the definition of what Solipsism is) I will gladly discuss with him so he can carry out his war on me. Just a little funny as I'm a Cognitive Dualist, and he is Anti- Solipist, suggesting that he too is a Dualist, so all I hear is confused anger and noise and am honestly mystified as to how I should respond. Plus his reading comprehension is low and wants me to shrink the sum total of every idea down to a paragraph, so he can more easily refute it. Impossible. Others grasp my longer posts just fine, I put out even longer ones in history discussions.

Only two issues I'm aware of, period. Got issues, PM me so I know someone is even challenging me somewhere to reply.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Zoot Allures » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:23 am

I would like to say I'm denying Zoots on the dualism /Non-Dualism debate, but he currently lacks a coherent position that can even be reasonably debated


There isn't any debate, because all you can do is ramble. Epistemological solipsism is an impossible position that collapses onto itself, and I presented a few very easily understood arguments against it. Browser disappeared and you went off on some scatter-brained diatribe that did everything but clarify your position or answer to my challenge.

A day later you are talking about cognitive dualism which at that point in the solipsism argument was neither here nor there. So I went with you, took something out of your new ramble, and asked you to clarify it. You didn't, so I did it for you.

After day three it was no longer my intent to keep the discussion on track, but to pick out and show inconsistencies in the various things you have said along the way. We aren't arguing anymore, because you can't argue, you can't focus on anything, you cannnot summarise or clarify anything, and you have little understanding of how an argument works. All you do is ramble about a hundred things at once.

Your biggest problem is that you have filled your head with content that you cannot simplify or organize into a coherent position.

Just a little funny as I'm a Cognitive Dualist, and he is Anti- Solipist, suggesting that he too is a Dualist


I'm not an anythingist, even less a dualist. If I was forced to pick a spot I'd be a substance monist because mind/body dualism is riddled with problems.

so all I hear is confused anger and noise and am honestly mystified as to how I should respond. Plus his reading comprehension is low and wants me to shrink the sum total of every idea down to a paragraph, so he can more easily refute it.


Philosophers don't make me angry. They disappoint me. And where my reading comprehension is low, it is such because if I have found a fundamental flaw in the basic premises of a position, I don't proceed further. That anybody else does is their business.

And I don't ask you to shrink your posts for the purposes of refuting them like I'm some asshole who wants you to be wrong. I do so for the purposes of making it easier for you to recognize problems with your arguments. You've just admitted to not knowing how to respond to even the smallest of my posts. Imagine how much trouble you would have if I actually put effort into this.

Others grasp my longer posts just fine, I put out even longer ones in history discussions.


No they don't, because much of what you say cannot be grasped. These people simply watch and enjoy your writing style.. something very good in certain respects, but not qualifiable as rigid argumentation; your history lessons are not formal arguments so there is nothing to dispute except the historical accuracy of it all. And frankly, I'm less worried about who did what in 1176, and more worried about your inability to comprehend an argument.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby AutSider » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:08 pm

Your argument is that the rules should be different to make everyone equal because some are faster than others, so that all will have the same opportunity. Like for example the slowest races get to go out of the flags a number of times.


Where did I say that? :shock:
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:35 pm

you are saying this thread does not present equality of outcome.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby AutSider » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:58 pm

Quote me saying that.
Or at least quote something written by me which you interpreted as me saying that.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:48 pm

No. You explain to me how this thread contains a fallacy of equivocation. Please be specific.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Zoot Allures » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:17 pm

You're messing around with a logician now, Arb. You better watch out. Hell hath no fury like a logical woman.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby AutSider » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:44 pm

phoneutria wrote:No. You explain to me how this thread contains a fallacy of equivocation. Please be specific.


Sure.

Let not the irony escape you, folks, that the people who are always criticizing modern society for leveling things down to a common denominator, are the people now crying that they don't get the same rights as everyone. The people advocating for a society of elitism and preference, in this case are thinking that they could use some equality.


In both bolded parts you refer to the same type of people, if I am not mistaken.
In the first bolded part, you refer to equal(same) rights - which is equality of opportunity.

In the second bolded part, you seem to be implying that elitism and preference are somehow incompatible with equality, but since elitism and preference are compatible with equality of opportunity (all have equal opportunity to prove themselves, and based on this they become elite/are preferred), I interpret that as you talking about equality of outcome.
Another reason I think you're talking about equality of outcome in this, second instance: The ones who use the word equality in a positive sense in modern times are almost always those who by equality mean equality of outcome - this means giving people different rights and opportunities, either more, in order to compensate for their genetic, natural deficiencies, or depriving them of rights so as to prevent their genetic, natural advantages to manifest in reality. Example: Affirmative action (prefering one race/sex over another), a fixed number of spots in some job that has to be occupied by a demographic X, etc.

Unrelated to this, just something I want to comment on too:

Those of you who do think that equality is good and that democracy is the way should definitely vote a yes.


A democracy is an equality of outcome based system - regardless of your intelligence and education, your vote counts the same as everybody else's, aka, the outcome is the same.
An equality of opportunity based system would try to account for people's inherent inequalities in voting so everybody would f.e. take a test which would determine how informed they are about politics, how knowledgeable they are about economics and politics, and how intelligent they are, and take all those into account to determine how much their vote would be worth. Of course, this is a much more complex system that is harder to set up, but hardly anything can be as bad as everybody's vote counting equally.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Sauwelios » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:23 am

62% to 38%! That's almost exactly the Golden Ratio!
"Someone may object that the successful revolt against the universal and homogeneous state could have no other effect than that the identical historical process which has led from the primitive horde to the final state will be repeated. But would such a repetition of the process--a new lease of life for man's humanity--not be preferable to the indefinite continuation of the inhuman end? Do we not enjoy every spring although we know the cycle of the seasons, although we know that winter will come again?" (Leo Strauss, "Restatement on Xenophon's Hiero".)
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Zoot Allures » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:45 am

Quick, somebody get HatingMeIsEasier!
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Artimas » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:50 am

Zoot Allures wrote:Quick, somebody get HatingMeIsEasier!


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Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Zoot Allures » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:16 am

Yes. Those big ass pictures in your sig box. You need to lay off the Pink Floyd and stop spending all your allowance at the local head shop.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Artimas » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:20 am

Zoot Allures wrote:Yes. Those big ass pictures in your sig box. You need to lay off the Pink Floyd and stop spending all your allowance at the local head shop.


Nah, I don't need to lay off the Pink Floyd. I also don't spend money at any head shops. I like my pictures in my sig box.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Zoot Allures » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:34 am

Then what's your favorite album? And don't say Dark Side of the Moon. You look like the kind of guy who couldn't get into The Final Cut. You don't look like you could get into the older stuff either; Relics, Meddle, Atom Heart Mother, Saucer Full of Secrets. I think you listen to The Wall over and over again in your sweaty little teenage room with the red bulb and the incense. Tell me Nick Mason is not the worst drummer in the history of rock. I dare you. You know Barrett freaked the fuck out and is living with his mum in Cambridge, right? For two points, finish the following words at the end of the Darkside album: there is no dark side of the moon, really....

For two more points, finish these words from the song Money: that geezer was...

Know your Floyd, dude. I'm gonna be hitting you with unexpected questions. You better be ready.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:37 am

saucerful of secrets
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Zoot Allures » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:39 am

saucerful of secrets


A band typo. They meant to spell it like I did. A Saucer Full of Secrets. I read this in a rock journal.

[ crosses fingers ]
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Artimas » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:46 am

Zoot Allures wrote:Then what's your favorite album? And don't say Dark Side of the Moon. You look like the kind of guy who couldn't get into The Final Cut. You don't look like you could get into the older stuff either; Relics, Meddle, Atom Heart Mother, Saucer Full of Secrets. I think you listen to The Wall over and over again in your sweaty little teenage room with the red bulb and the incense. Tell me Nick Mason is not the worst drummer in the history of rock. I dare you. You know Barrett freaked the fuck out and is living with his mum in Cambridge, right? For two points, finish the following words at the end of the Darkside album: there is no dark side of the moon, really....

For two more points, finish these words from the song Money: that geezer was...

Know your Floyd, dude. I'm gonna be hitting you with unexpected questions. You better be ready.


That geezer was cruising for a bruising...

I don't like incense and I don't have a red bulb.. I am also not a teenager... The Wall and Dark side of the Moon are awesome albums.

Matter of fact it's all dark....

Sounds to me like you're just a hater bro.. seem like a fucking leftsider.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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