Petition to unban lys

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Moderator: Carleas

I'd like lys to be allowed back into ILP

Poll ended at Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:40 am

signed
13
59%
no, keep her out
9
41%
 
Total votes : 22

Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:40 am

Thread not meant as a disrespect to ilp government. Intended to demostrate the opinion of the user base.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:49 am

I do think that she can be spammy and disruptive, but her stuff is mostly contained in a few threads.
It is much worse when someone like ecmandu goes into every thread with a red herring and turns all threads into debunking inanities.
But mostly, no one can deny that, whether or not she is right, she is passionate about philosophy. A place like this needs people like that.
We have our lil cat fights from time to time, but she's ma girl. I would like her back.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:28 am

I just voted no so that they'll feel validated from calling me an asshole so many times.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:30 am

Also, having an interest in philosophy is ok, so long as you don't go around pretending like the one little bit of it you've learned encompasses the whole discipline and then pretend like people who know all of it don't know any of it because they wont entertain the shit parts you've caught on to. If she was really interested in philosophy say, more so than she was interested in establishing some kind of psuedo dominance by which to nurture her ego, then she'd shut up and listen and not dismiss everything that doesn't fit her narrow world view.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Mr Reasonable » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:31 am

Like the small businessperson who's read Ayn Rand and is now ready to go up against the whole philosophical world with it, while simultaneously being ignorant to everything that doesn't flatter their view.
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:56 pm

Please vote, ladies and gentlemen.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:27 pm

Voting is anonymous, kids, fear not.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:50 pm

Let not the irony escape you, folks, that the people who are always criticizing modern society for leveling things down to a common denominator, are the people now crying that they don't get the same rights as everyone. The people advocating for a society of elitism and preference, in this case are thinking that they could use some equality.

Come on, that is at least a little bit funny.

Those of you who do think that equality is good and that democracy is the way should definitely vote a yes. Not only because lys hasn't done anything so different from any other poster that would warrant her a permaban, but also because this is what you believe in. Send lys a message that it is good to have rights awarded to you by the group.

Those of you who are um, xtian, send a message that is good to show grace and forgive and be forgiven. It is what you believe in.

Those of you who are attempting to run a fair, vibrant, lively forum, don't let your personal dislike for a person or an idea create a precedent for silencing the insubordinates. A community is at the strongest when it contains the widest range of opinions, so that the discussions can flow. Look at kts, one person says it is so, and the others say amen. Is that what you want?

Vote.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:10 pm

phoneutria wrote:Voting is anonymous, kids, fear not.



Even though in that thread about banning her, I had said already that I could care less whether she came back or not, so as far as I am concerned, she can come back though it is not within my power to give that permission - but it really has nothing to do with me - it's all on Carleas.

But this is my question - what does Lyssa have to say about all of this? Does she even care whether or not she comes back in here and based on her actions in here and breaking the rules, as I also said, no one is indispensable in here except by reason of the biases (for instance) people liking her.

So what does she have to say about it? Will she continue to be Satyr's mouthpiece? Will she continue to spam HIs MIND as opposed to her own if she does indeed come back or will she post solely from her own mind - inasmuch as any of us can - considering that there isn't much new under the sun... Oh, how I would love to be a fly on the wall over there right now. I can only imagine how emotionally charged things might be - but of course, I could be completely wrong about that. :lol:

Like I said, as far as I'm concerned, she can come back - it's no skin off my back but I rather feel personally, all things considered, that she might explain herself and what her views are about this and how she will or will not conduct herself -- that's if Carleas even decided to give her another chance.

It's kind of ludicrous to me to vote if she can care less either way...under the circumstances of it all. So even though I can say yes I won't clikc the button as of yet. What do you feel about "that"? Does it make no sense to you?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:19 pm

She has been essentially gagged, so I would think that even if she does not come back at all, ILP has a burden to take the gag off.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:45 pm

phoneutria wrote:She has been essentially gagged, .


Gagged by who? Carleas or Satyr?


so I would think that even if she does not come back at all, ILP has a burden to take the gag off


As this statement stands, what would be the incentive for Carleas to even want to let her back in, if she could care less about coming back and/or decided not to and not stipulate that she wouldn't break the Rule again?
Under the circumstances, the way I look at it, she would have the burden to make some kind of concession, not Carleas.

I could think of a way for them to communicate and it would be in black and white but if Carleas wasn't interested in dropping the ban, it wouldn't make a difference.

Pride always goeth before the fall. Don't I know that. :lol:
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phyllo » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:48 pm

Here is a solution : Stop writing about Satyr. If that happens, then she has no reason to be here (among the herd). The ban becomes irrelevant.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:49 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:me back at all, ILP has a burden to take the gag off


As this statement stands, what would be the incentive for Carleas to even want to let her back in...[/quote]

To be correct by his own rules and his own set of ideological beliefs.


Under the circumstances, the way I look at it, she would have the burden to make some kind of concession, not Carleas.


My point is that lys is correct by her rules, carleass is incorrect by his rules.

Here is something for which there is no scale of grey. Either you have a free society, or you don't.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:20 pm

phyllo wrote:Here is a solution : Stop writing about Satyr. If that happens, then she has no reason to be here (among the herd). The ban becomes irrelevant.


phyllo, I didn't catch your drift here.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:40 pm

As this statement stands, what would be the incentive for Carleas to even want to let her back in...

To be correct by his own rules and his own set of ideological beliefs.


But he is being correct by his own rules. Some people are just not seeing it maybe because they don't want to. Unfortunately, and I may be wrong here, if more people who cared about her could actually see things a bit from his side, they could be more helpful to her instead of enabling her by thinking she's right and he's wrong. By his rules as they stand, she DID break them.




My point is that lys is correct by her rules, carleass is incorrect by his rules.

lol There isn't too much bias within that statement, phoneutria. :lol:
Well, in that case, Lys maybe would want to set up her own forum and then she could truly BE correct by her rules. She also might come to realize the beauty of certain rules. Even Satyr has some over there doesn't he?

The fact that there is a particular clause, an Exception, in that excerpt I included in my post to Aussen, in that thread, does show that Carleas is, in fact, not incorrect by his rules or in banning her because of the reasoning set up with that rule.

As I said, I have nothing against her personally as I really do not know her. So if it were up to me, I'd let her back in but the reality IS that by Carleas' standards, she did break the rule and I am also capable of seeing as a result of that ruling and because of her antics in here,
the intelligence behind them (Carleas' ruling). Maybe you cannot and others cannot. if I couldn't see that at all, if I couldn't "get it", I could not have gone into that thread and posted anything. I know that things are not always so black and white but sometimes they are if people choose to really see it. I don't really know Carleas at all or much at all so I am as unbiased where he is concerned as I am where she is concerned. Not so sure you can say the same thing.


Here is something for which there is no scale of grey. Either you have a free society, or you don't.

I have only this to say here - one needs to be very certain about just how free a society they would want.
That could be different things to different people. It's funny, but you don't see all the grey areas and problems within that statement.

Nice talking with you phoneutria. I can understand how you feel though at the same time I'm not sure I can. If someone I liked a lot was banned for whatever reason perhaps I couldn't be sure how I would react. But then again, loyalty doesn't mean blindness. I might stay by this person's side while at the same time helping him or her to understand that in my book, according to how the rules are set up - they were still wrong. Being a friend doesn't mean being an enabler, phoneutria. You may be being totally honest in your assessment but it doesn't mean that you are right. You are just seeing with different eyes and perhaps through the eyes of a friend, which is admirable but still not always real.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phyllo » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:21 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
phyllo wrote:Here is a solution : Stop writing about Satyr. If that happens, then she has no reason to be here (among the herd). The ban becomes irrelevant.


phyllo, I didn't catch your drift here.
Lys (and the other KTers) claims that ILP consists of a herd of dumb animals. She does not want to be here. She was only here and re-posting Satyr's content because Iambiguous was writing about Satyr in the Rant section. She was 'correcting' a misrepresentation.

She will leave, if the writing about Satyr stops.

(If she wants to stay, that means that she was not sincere and she actually likes being in the ILP herd.)
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:26 pm

Whether or not I or anyone likes or dislikes lys does not matter.
What matters is if you want for people who are only minimally disruptive to be silenced.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby AutSider » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:52 pm

phoneutria wrote:Let not the irony escape you, folks, that the people who are always criticizing modern society for leveling things down to a common denominator, are the people now crying that they don't get the same rights as everyone. The people advocating for a society of elitism and preference, in this case are thinking that they could use some equality.

Come on, that is at least a little bit funny.

Those of you who do think that equality is good and that democracy is the way should definitely vote a yes. Not only because lys hasn't done anything so different from any other poster that would warrant her a permaban, but also because this is what you believe in. Send lys a message that it is good to have rights awarded to you by the group.

Those of you who are um, xtian, send a message that is good to show grace and forgive and be forgiven. It is what you believe in.

Those of you who are attempting to run a fair, vibrant, lively forum, don't let your personal dislike for a person or an idea create a precedent for silencing the insubordinates. A community is at the strongest when it contains the widest range of opinions, so that the discussions can flow. Look at kts, one person says it is so, and the others say amen. Is that what you want?

Vote.


Ah, the fallacy of equivocation - using the word 'equality' to interchangeably mean 'equality of opportunity' and 'equality of outcome'. It's too typical and generic of a word-manipulation method used widely and constantly by the modern left. I give 2/10 because of lack of creativity.

At KT all are allowed their voice... they don't come because they are cowards, look at Zoot, Turd and the other turd. Posturing, declaring and attacking from a distance, not daring to engage directly, face to face.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:04 pm

Arbiter of Change wrote:Ah, the fallacy of equivocation - using the word 'equality' to interchangeably mean 'equality of opportunity' and 'equality of outcome'. It's too typical and generic of a word-manipulation method used widely and constantly by the modern left. I give 2/10 because of lack of creativity.


Unless you can provide a different meaning for the word equality, no.
Where the word has not been constrained to a specific group (whether of opportunity or outcome), you should take the broadest meaning, which is all categories of equality. So not just opportunity and not just outcome, but both and then some.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:45 pm

phyllo wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:
phyllo wrote:Here is a solution : Stop writing about Satyr. If that happens, then she has no reason to be here (among the herd). The ban becomes irrelevant.


phyllo, I didn't catch your drift here.
Lys (and the other KTers) claims that ILP consists of a herd of dumb animals. She does not want to be here. She was only here and re-posting Satyr's content because Iambiguous was writing about Satyr in the Rant section. She was 'correcting' a misrepresentation.

She will leave, if the writing about Satyr stops.

(If she wants to stay, that means that she was not sincere and she actually likes being in the ILP herd.)


Phoneutria,

So what you're saying here is that Satyr doesn't have such a thick skin, that he couldn't simply ignore this (although I can in some way understand this) or even invite iambiguous over there to answer to them? He had to send a WOMAN. Oh, Satyr, I am really surprised at you. What kind of a satyr are you anyway? You could have been more resourceful than that.

And I will have to take a look-see to see if indeed Rant was the only place she was being Satyr's mouthpiece and in reply to Iambiguous. Either way, it doesn't much matter. The killer goes before the judge and says "But your honor, I only killed him because he said mean things about me. If he didn't, he would be alive today. Maybe that's a poor comparison but it still works for me.

She will leave.... I think she's already gone and not of her own volition. Perhaps at some point, her banning will be irrelevant but not at this point, not yet but I may be incorrect in my assessment.

Lys (and the other KTers) claims that ILP consists of a herd of dumb animals


:lol: Of course they do. But that doesn't actually say much does it? Who is it who might be wounded by that statement? lol
We can all at times be a herd of dumb animals but some of us are less of a herd or less of the Borg than are others. Who is it who is to establish who is more so or less so?

I can see the precipice and on either side of it is ilp and Know Thyself. As I said, we can all be dumb animals at times but not at all times and not all of us. I'm not actually excluding myself in that last.

But I think that we have to be very discerning of what herd we follow. Personally, I don't like being part of any herd, I like to be the dragon that flies above it all or the wolf which goes her own way but being part of a society alas one can't always be that - unless they enter a cave and become a hermit. But we can decide who we will walk with and agree with.

ah, a herd of dumb animals....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The survival of the fittiest and all that - I wonder - how many have already plunged into the abyss of that precipice.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phyllo » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:54 pm

So what you're saying here is that Satyr doesn't have such a thick skin, that he couldn't simply ignore this
One wonders about that...
Why would wise men and women care about the opinions of fools?

The reasons for discussing of ILP on KT and KT on ILP escape my understanding. :-?

The only reason that I put my two cents into this thread is because :
1. a solution is relatively simple.
2. this vote puts Carleas into an awkward position and should have been avoided
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby Artimas » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:55 pm

Enough with all the drama shit. This is a philosophy site, not a soap opera or a stage.

Even nothing, is something.
If one is to live balanced with expectations, then one must learn to appreciate the negative as well, to respect darkness in its own home.

All smoke fades, as do all delicate mirrors shatter.

"My ancestors are smiling on me, Imperials. Can you say the same?"

"Science Fiction today ~ Science Fact tomorrow"

Change is inevitable, it can only be delayed or sped up. Choose wisely.

Truth is pain, and pain is gain.


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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby AutSider » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:05 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Arbiter of Change wrote:Ah, the fallacy of equivocation - using the word 'equality' to interchangeably mean 'equality of opportunity' and 'equality of outcome'. It's too typical and generic of a word-manipulation method used widely and constantly by the modern left. I give 2/10 because of lack of creativity.


Unless you can provide a different meaning for the word equality, no.
Where the word has not been constrained to a specific group (whether of opportunity or outcome), you should take the broadest meaning, which is all categories of equality. So not just opportunity and not just outcome, but both and then some.


People are unequal. Thus equality of opportunity and equality of outcome are in contradiction, as when there is equal opportunity, equal outcome can only happen if all participants are equal.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby phoneutria » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:12 pm

Arbiter of Change wrote:People are unequal. Thus equality of opportunity and equality of outcome are in contradiction, as when there is equal opportunity, equal outcome can only happen if all participants are equal.


People are equal under a democratic rule where it pertains to obedience of rules. Outcome should be the same regardless of who you are. If you break a law, you go to jail. If you disobey a rule, you are banned.
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Re: Petition to unban lys

Postby AutSider » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:19 pm

I don't think you understand what I meant.

Equality of opportunity pertains to law allowing the same freedom, aka, putting equal restrictions on everybody, aka all start the race from the same line and nothing obstructs them from finishing it except their own natural limitations.
Equality of outcome means that, since people are different, they must treated unequally in order to artificially make them equal, aka, you have to put more restrictions on the more competent ones, and artificially elevate the less competent ones - affirmative action would be an example of this.

They are only consistent if you think all people are, literally, equal, as this would mean that if you give equal opportunity to them, they all start from the same line, they will all finish the race the same.
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