If it’s not too much of a problem, I’m going to go ahead and do my job which is to Moderate the Social Sciences Forum. If you would like to Moderate the Social Sciences Forum, I would respectfully suggest that you PM Carleas with a formal request to replace me as Moderator. If you would like to comment negatively on my Moderation, then I would respectfully suggest that you create a new thread in Help & Suggestions to do so.
Further deviations from the subject matter, in-thread, to comment on Moderation WILL draw Warnings. You are free to address me in PM, Help & Suggestions, or take it up with Carleas.
Well done Pav, after several pages of vile racist nonsense and insulting anyone who disagrees, you’ve finally warned Fent. That really proves that you aren’t at all biased.
Is this all you’ve got? ‘I’m doing a really crappy, one-sided job of moderating but my only response to criticism is that I’m doing my job’? That’s terrible. You know that shooting near the Empire State building the other week when the police shot a bunch of people because they panicked? Imagine if they had that attitude, they’d just get away with it.
Oh, wait…
I’ve tried addressing the subject of moderation in private and got repeatedly and aggressively insulted by both OH and Magsj, even harassed at times, as a result. I’ve also filed reports about various posters who have broken the rules at least as badly as I have and nothing gets done. The private route clearly doesn’t work. If you want to ban me for pointing out you’re a biased hypocrite then go right ahead. I don’t need this place, clearly you do…
Oooh, you’re so generous and benevolent. I’m so very grateful that you allowed me to politely respond to a racist fool who is incapable of having a discussion with anyone who disagrees with him without disciplining me. It really proves that you aren’t biased. I mean, it’s not as though this guy has been doing this on multiple threads in multiple forums for weeks. It’s not as though no one can stand to talk to him. It’s not as though you’ve just let him spread racist, hateful material while banning people for trivial nonsense just because you are intimidated by their worldview. It’s not as though you’ve locked perfectly decent threads, long after any dispute has burnt out, just because you don’t like the subject matter being discussed.
The moderation is unfortunately more often than not done at the expense of content and trust. You’re doing a remarkably bad job Pav, but then objective moderation of a discussion forum is an objectively impossible job , so I don’t blame you for fucking it up so badly.
I’m going to tell you something, I tend to Moderate loosely and that is a standard that I apply to everyone. I really don’t want to have to treat people like babies, and if people were capable of generally treating one another with respect and conveying opinions with decorum and in good faith, the website would not need Moderators at all to accomplish its objective.
There have been occasions where I have had to be heavy-handed, and then it is back under control for a couple months, and I get somewhat laissez-faire again, and it gets out of control again. I will tell you this, even ignoring the quoted post for which I did not ban you, I would hardly be shocked if I were to pull up your posts for the last week and find at least three where I could ban you with a heavy-handed construance of the Rules.
I tend to construe the Rules pretty loosely, and I generally only apply bans for the most blatant of offenses. There are any number of posts that are Edited by the poster prior to the subject of the post seeing the post because I have requested such by PM. There are posts for which I politely, “Unofficially Warn,” people via PM without asking for an Edit because they are not particularly blatant. Blatant enough for me to notice and point out, yes, but not really to Warn/Ban.
Keep in mind that if an individual has a history of obtaining Warnings, then that person is going to be on a, “Shorter leash,” than other people will be. Correlation is not Causation, this I know, but the CT guys to whom you constantly refer, including yourself, have a well-established history of obtaining Warnings. This is all outlined in the SS Rules, so it’s not like I am applying a certain standard to some and not to others.
Have at it. Cite some posts. Defend your position that I am doing a, “Really crappy, one-sided job,” I seriously doubt if Carleas wants really crappy, one-sided Moderators, so if you are correct, it shouldn’t be too terribly difficult to have me replaced.
I have exactly nothing to do with your conversations with OH and MagsJ. My request was that you address me privately, in H&S, or appeal my decisions to Carleas. If you have not attempted addressing anything privately with me, then you are not in a position to suggest that addressing things privately with me will bear no fruit.
For someone who doesn’t need this place, you sure post much more frequently than I do in recent weeks. Just click on each of our handles and go to, “View User Posts,” you’ll see. I don’t think anyone needs this place, though, too strong of a word. I’d like to think that we both want to participate here, whether or not I wish to participate here more than you do is something that I have no way of knowing.
EDIT: I just pulled it up by Usernames. The bottom post on my page of, “User Posts,” was from August 28th while yours is from September 6th. If you take out Warnings, Locking that Thread, Unlocking that Thread, and posts to which I have responded in this thread, where do you think I would be? Mid-August? It’s clear that I need this site more than you do, though, you’ve got me there…
I must have missed something in that one line post directly questioning the ability of the person to whom the post was directed to understand the would-be point. If you say that there was something in there that would have made that post polite, I would be most interested in you pointing out what exactly that was.
“Racist fool,” is also ad hom. I’m also letting that one slide. The next one is a Warning. Are you trying to get Warned because, by some rationalization that would make absolutely no sense to me, Warning you for a blatant insult and ad hom attack would prove my bias?
I do not read every Forum. If it did not happen in The Academy, Social Sciences or Creative Writing, then there is a pretty good chance that I am not aware of it. Outside of Forums delegated to me, I read only threads in which the topic interests me, with exception to another Moderator requesting his/her Forum(s) be covered because he/she will not be on for x length of time.
I have no idea whether or not anyone can stand to talk to him. It certainly seems as though people talk to him, you’ve talked to him, you’re currently talking about him, so he must contribute to the generation of some activity on the Forum. I am not going to substantiate your comment that he is a racist, but I will say that being a racist, in and of itself, is not a violation of any Forum Rule of which I am aware. Perhaps you should appeal for an Addendum to the Forum Rules by which nobody can make racist proclaimations…but then you’re so big on freedom of speech…how’s that work?
I disagree that two posts (or so) after a dispute has burnt out is, “Long after.” Furthermore, when I Unlocked the thread, I also bumped it back to the top prior to you making this statement which clearly proves to anyone capable of reason (which I am sure you are) that my intentions had nothing to do with killing that thread. If I wanted to kill it, why bump it?
Your absolution of my poor performance means more to me than you will ever know. That’s sarcasm, just for the record.
Honestly, I said it earlier in this thread, if you think I suck, appeal to Carleas to get rid of me and appoint you in my place. Don’t want to Moderate? In that event, just appeal to Carleas to replace me. If you are dissatisfied with my performance, then I strongly encourage you to do so.
I’d rather make it so abundantly clear to you that moderation is a thankless, pointless task and see you resign. Resignation is much more dignified.
I have attempted addressing things in private, as you well know.
You need it for reasons other than posting. None of the mods post much, and none of them seem to have any interest in the titles of the forums they moderate. This is a more general problem with moderators all over the internet, but it is clear on this one. I’m not going to deny I get something out of posting here - if I didn’t then I wouldn’t.
I could have said, for example, ‘I would make a point, but you’re an idiot so there’s no point’. That would have been less polite. I offered an honest reason for why I wasn’t engaging in the debate, based entirely on previous attempts to discuss things with said poster. I think that’s quite polite. I didn’t lie. I didn’t directly insult him, I simply stated a fact as my reason behind not making a point.
It isn’t ad hom. Someone being a racist fool doesn’t mean what they are saying is untrue, and I never claimed that it did. An ad hom isn’t just any old insult - though none of the mods here seem to realise that, particularly you and Magsj. You’ve both warned me for ‘ad hom’ when in fact all I did was insult someone or swear at them. I suggest that if you are going to be a mod, on a philosophy forum, and are going to use philosophical terms as part of that moderation that first you actually learn what those terms mean so you don’t use them incorrectly and look a fool.
As I have made abundantly clear, short of removing child porn and spam and the like I see no point in having moderators. And being opposed to idiotic, poorly applied censorship does not mean I’m ‘so big on freedom of speech’.
You know full well that this is deceitful Pav because you only unlocked and bumped the thread AFTER I had privately filed a report criticising you for locking it long after the dispute had burned out. I’d say two days (I measure length of time in time, not number of posts) is ‘long after’ in forum dispute terms. I’m not impressed by the rampant dishonesty you’ve employed here, it really doesn’t speak to a moderating policy that has anything even approaching personal or intellectual integrity. Not that you have to give a toss, but clearly you do otherwise you wouldn’t have written such a lengthy attempt to justify and defend your moderation.
So was the absolution, for what it’s worth. I’m glad it got you upset though, that was the intention.
I don’t know how to handle this ridiculous power-inspired ‘detachment’ that the mods here resort to so frequently. I was especially confused by your respectful apology. I never make a point of bad moderation but this was just too random and bureaucratic.
James, I respect the mods as posters and people, I often wonder about their moderating and banning choices. There are plenty of dictators who gladly justify their actions - in their terms. Credit, sure, but we don’t have to respect their decisions or be mild on them.
If I tell a man that he is a woman, “Even though he doesn’t recognize it,” does that prove my case?
I think it is because, short of a small handful of other posters who may erroneously feel slighted by me, it’s because you know that any attempt to see me terminated as a Moderator wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.
Shit, I’ll tell you what, popular vote. Deadline: Two weeks from today. Criteria:
1.) Must have 100 posts as of this 18:21 p.m. EST, September 10th, 2012.
2.) Votes must be made in the form of a post.
3.) Matching posts from any Users that come from the same IP address are excluded, to the extent that only one vote will be counted.
4.) Must have made at least one post between 18:21p.m. EST, September 3rd, 2012 and 18:21p.m. EST, September 10th, 2012.
5.) Members who are presently banned that will not be unbanned by that date are excluded from voting.
6.) Every vote must be in the form of a post in a thread that I will create.
IF I lose, not only will I fulfill your desire for me to resign, I will never post on this website again. Deal?
[q]I have attempted addressing things in private, as you well know. [/q]
Here and there. You have certainly not PM’ed me since I requested you do so which was just a few days ago. In specific opposition to my request, you continued the discussion, in-thread, rather than taking it to H&S, which I have now done.
Wrong. We put it to a vote. I lose, I leave.
Suggesting that you could have made a less polite post does nothing to make the post that you did make polite. It simply made it less impolite. You also insulted his intelligence, though not as directly as you possibly could have. Border-line post, and what did I do? I let it slide.
Fine, not ad hom, blatant insult. Rules violation no matter how you look at it. A pile of cow shit by any other name still smells like cow shit.
I would suggest that you may find many chat rooms more enjoyable, from a Moderation standpoint.
I really don’t care about the report you filed, it did nothing to compel me to take the action that I would already have taken anyway. How are you going to create motivations for me to take a certain action when there exists a clearly provable precedent for me bumping Unlocked threads? I could find some, shouldn’t have to, but I could.
It may or may not have been two days. I’m not sure. I’d have to review the thread. I was off Thursday, so it is quite possible. I make Moderation decisions based on the content of posts, however, not when those posts happened. If I am not on for a day, that doesn’t mean that I am not going to address the things that happen that day, they will still be addressed. I saw a problem in that thread, I addressed it.
It has nothing to do with you personally, in terms of giving a toss. You presented objections, I responded to them. I’ve always been open, someone objects to my Moderation, I respond.
As a former mod, I wish to claim that Pav is second to none in evenhandedness, not only right now, nut since I have been visiting the site. As a current member at large, I would like to respectfully request that SIATD be permanently banned from the site. He is an embarrassment to this site, and i mean that literally. I am embarrassed almost every time I read one of his rants. Which are most of his posts.
While we’re handing out criticisms and making requests.
I don’t think I’d use the word, “Upset.” You made a statement, and I responded. These things that happen on-line don’t really concern me. It is unlikely that we would ever meet in person, and even if we did, I wouldn’t give a shit about anything that you said to or about me on here. Face-to-face relationships are different by their very nature.
I’m afraid I’m not sure what you are referring to. Could you please link me to the post in question? The act of Moderation, by its very nature, is also bureaucratic. We are cocerned with the enforcement of objective Rules and try to do so as objectively as possible, sometimes the Rules are prone to subjective interpretations, as are posts occasionally, but that’s unavoidable. If every violation of Forum Rules could be a clear, convincing and blatant one, if they must exist at all, I wouldn’t mind.
As far as being inspired by power is concerned, I am putting my continued Moderation to an open vote, if I lose, I leave.
This was for James, but to the last part, I have never asked for anyone to respect my decisions or be mild on me. I have specifically stated, repeatedly, that any post directed to me personally will NEVER draw a ban from me and I have specifically discouraged other Moderators from Warning posters based on posts directed to me.
I appreciate the compliments coming from both of you. I hope that I will have your support in the upcoming recall vote. Perhaps we should stipulate that SIATD freely and voluntarily leave the site if I win. I’m kidding, of course, provided he stays within the Rules, I wouldn’t even want him to leave, personally.
I’ve been very lenient with you actually… mainly to see how far you’d go… which is very but I thought we were getting on so well now… silly me Did our message exchange mean nothing to you
I agree with that sentiment and statement of support, but honestly, endless arguments with mods is a truly juvenile activity which is best simply ignored.
A good solution for the chronic complaintants is to start their own forum where they can be mods themselves, and run things exactly the way they want to.
but I thought we were getting on so well now… silly me 
Did our message exchange mean nothing to you 