Wholeness

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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:16 pm

Absolutely, always will be that way for me.

Not because those people want me to have a bad day because of them, but simply because I can’t stand consent violation.

It’s simply the way I’m wired. Do I violate the consent of others? Of course I do, we all do. It doesn’t excuse consent violation though.

Part of it is the extreme to which I have suffered in life (and that’s even before I was in hell).

I make no excuses for consent violation. It’s ever present in my mind. That’s how I’m wired.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:40 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Absolutely, always will be that way for me.

Not because those people want me to have a bad day because of them, but simply because I can’t stand consent violation.

It’s simply the way I’m wired. Do I violate the consent of others? Of course I do, we all do. It doesn’t excuse consent violation though.

Part of it is the extreme to which I have suffered in life (and that’s even before I was in hell).

I make no excuses for consent violation. It’s ever present in my mind. That’s how I’m wired.


It seems to me you're at war with nature. Nature doesn't ask us for our consent to be born or die or for the fundamental facts of our existence.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:50 pm

I have a very dark soul I always need to reign in. If I wasn’t at war with nature, I’d be Dick Chaney or Donald Trump. Like an alchemist, I transmute my rage. It’s not natural at all.

When people tell me that nobody consents to be born, I always tell them this:

It’s not that simple. This is like saying that the leading cause of death is birth! That’s a fact to be sure, but it’s also the leading cause of life. In this same way, birth is not just consent violation, it’s the genesis of consent.

As for dying, I’ve learned we never die.

I’ve heard it said that the goal of philosophy is to learn how to die. That’s easy! Actually, the goal of philosophy is to learn how to live forever.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:15 pm

Ecmandu wrote:I have a very dark soul I always need to reign in. If I wasn’t at war with nature, I’d be Dick Chaney or Donald Trump. Like an alchemist, I transmute my rage. It’s not natural at all.

When people tell me that nobody consents to be born, I always tell them this:

It’s not that simple. This is like saying that the leading cause of death is birth! That’s a fact to be sure, but it’s also the leading cause of life. In this same way, birth is not just consent violation, it’s the genesis of consent.

As for dying, I’ve learned we never die.

I’ve heard it said that the goal of philosophy is to learn how to die. That’s easy! Actually, the goal of philosophy is to learn how to live forever.


Actually Donald Trump is very much at war with nature. He has turned the Environmental Protection Agency against its own mission to protect the environment.

Denial of death is a component of many religions. It's present paradoxically in Christianity. What is your basis for claiming we never die?
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:16 pm

The reason I say Donald is not at war with nature, is because success is about destruction in nature. The supernatural is the opposite!

Why don’t I think we die? Because we exist. Let me explain this. If we ever die (even our continuity of consciousness) at some point, we (right now) being a subset of our death couldn’t be here right now. By definition of death of us, we’re here! Contradiction. We don’t die.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:22 pm

Ecmandu wrote:The reason I say Donald is not at war with nature, is because success is about destruction in nature. The supernatural is the opposite!

Why don’t I think we die? Because we exist. Let me explain this. If we ever die (even our continuity of consciousness) at some point, we (right now) being a subset of our death couldn’t be here right now. By definition of death of us, we’re here! Contradiction. We don’t die.


"Success is about destruction in nature" is not a self-evident proposition, if true at all. What if anything the supernatural is is likewise not self-evident. Grammatically the opposite of natural is unnatural. Anyway, your propositions are not a priori true, and so they require evidence.

Our present existence is no guarantor of future existence. Present consciousness is no guarantor of future consciousness. Surely you've observed animals die. Do you deny that you're an animal?
Now we do have intimations of immortality. The question is, how do we interpret them?
Are you familiar with terror management theory? Simply put it is the theory that fantasies of immortality are means of coping with the terror of annihilation. The book to read is The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:41 pm

In a world like this, domination breeds success... those are earthly laws. They work every time here.

The distinction between “Mother Nature” and the higher mind is clear as can be. One way to describe this discrepancy is to call it “supernatural”

Religions teach not to be attached to here “Mother Nature”, but to renounce it as illusion - delusion.

That’s the spirit world talking to us, not the narrow view of earthly success talking to us.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:51 pm

Ecmandu wrote:In a world like this, domination breeds success... those are earthly laws. They work every time here.

The distinction between “Mother Nature” and the higher mind is clear as can be. One way to describe this discrepancy is to call it “supernatural”

Religions teach not to be attached to here “Mother Nature”, but to renounce it as illusion - delusion.

That’s the spirit world talking to us, not the narrow view of earthly success talking to us.


Without Mother Nature you wouldn't exist. Unmitigated dominance brings about its own destruction. The way to wholeness entails balance.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:10 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:In a world like this, domination breeds success... those are earthly laws. They work every time here.

The distinction between “Mother Nature” and the higher mind is clear as can be. One way to describe this discrepancy is to call it “supernatural”

Religions teach not to be attached to here “Mother Nature”, but to renounce it as illusion - delusion.

That’s the spirit world talking to us, not the narrow view of earthly success talking to us.


Without Mother Nature you wouldn't exist. Unmitigated dominance brings about its own destruction. The way to wholeness entails balance.


Cool. We’re on topic again. So here’s the deal. From your earthly viewpoint balance is like the Tao, because you’re trying to make EXCUSES for all the consent violation. You know why people do this who’ve acclimated to a world like this? Because of their egos. Their memories must all be worthwhile! They’re not. All your memories of doing good here or being worth recollecting as good are ALL garbage! Huge ego hit!

There’s no balance in this at all. Yes, existence is ultimately about the extremes - non consent violation for everyone forever, or regretting all your memories forever. The only slight exception to not have to regret all your memories are the times when you explain these things.

Again, there’s no balance to this scenario.

You have 4 different reality types:

1.) negative non zero sum consent violating realities (The worst one)
2.) negative zero sum realities (our current one)
3.) positive Zero sum realities (which you define as balance!)
4.) positive non zero sum non consent violating realities (the only one worth having)
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:39 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:In a world like this, domination breeds success... those are earthly laws. They work every time here.

The distinction between “Mother Nature” and the higher mind is clear as can be. One way to describe this discrepancy is to call it “supernatural”

Religions teach not to be attached to here “Mother Nature”, but to renounce it as illusion - delusion.

That’s the spirit world talking to us, not the narrow view of earthly success talking to us.


Without Mother Nature you wouldn't exist. Unmitigated dominance brings about its own destruction. The way to wholeness entails balance.


Cool. We’re on topic again. So here’s the deal. From your earthly viewpoint balance is like the Tao, because you’re trying to make EXCUSES for all the consent violation. You know why people do this who’ve acclimated to a world like this? Because of their egos. Their memories must all be worthwhile! They’re not. All your memories of doing good here or being worth recollecting as good are ALL garbage! Huge ego hit!

There’s no balance in this at all. Yes, existence is ultimately about the extremes - non consent violation for everyone forever, or regretting all your memories forever. The only slight exception to not have to regret all your memories are the times when you explain these things.

Again, there’s no balance to this scenario.

You have 4 different reality types:

1.) negative non zero sum consent violating realities (The worst one)
2.) negative zero sum realities (our current one)
3.) positive Zero sum realities (which you define as balance!)
4.) positive non zero sum non consent violating realities (the only one worth having)


Consent is a human social concept. To apply it in that realm of existence itself is a category error. No excuse is required where what is involved is an impersonal entity or a God. Where ego is not involved no consent is required either.

Your assertion that my memories are garbage is unsupported. Your claim that there is no balance in all this is unsupported.

Zero-sum transactions always involve a gain for both parties. So the idea that a zero-sum transaction is negative is a contradiction.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:23 pm

What?! You’re lecturing me about existence and you don’t even talk about the most basic game theory correctly. Sorry, sometimes I have a sharp tongue!

Zero sum means this:

There is a winner and a loser.

+1 (winner) -1 (loser). Add them together you get a sum of zero! Thus ‘zero sum’ game theory!
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:53 pm

Oops total brain fart on my part. I was multitasking and thinking of non zero-sum. Doh! I'm on the road,
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:10 am

felix dakat wrote:Oops total brain fart on my part. I was multitasking and thinking of non zero-sum. Doh! I'm on the road,


No worries!

Well, even on this, I’ll correct you. There are positive and negative non zero sum realities. This requires some explaining. Hmm... how to make it simple.

If there are no winners or losers but EVERYONE is equally in hell! That’s a negative non zero sum scenario!
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:47 am

Ecmandu wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Oops total brain fart on my part. I was multitasking and thinking of non zero-sum. Doh! I'm on the road,


No worries!

Well, even on this, I’ll correct you. There are positive and negative non zero sum realities. This requires some explaining. Hmm... how to make it simple.

If there are no winners or losers but EVERYONE is equally in hell! That’s a negative non zero sum scenario!


Okay so we all lose. Now what?
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:34 am

felix dakat wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Oops total brain fart on my part. I was multitasking and thinking of non zero-sum. Doh! I'm on the road,


No worries!

Well, even on this, I’ll correct you. There are positive and negative non zero sum realities. This requires some explaining. Hmm... how to make it simple.

If there are no winners or losers but EVERYONE is equally in hell! That’s a negative non zero sum scenario!


Okay so we all lose. Now what?


Positive zero sum realities are set up so that distribution is consensual and doesn’t bother people TOO much! That’s what your referring to as a balanced reality.

Are we currently fucked?! Hell yes we are!

There is not one being in existence who is currently not in some form of hell. People find this offensive because they think (religiously) that the highest state of consciousness sees everything as perfect!

I know enough about the spirit world (please don’t roll your eyes) that if the souls came together to create a positive NON zero sum reality for all of us, it’d be done.

I’m an activist, but I’m also waiting on the sidelines.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:50 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Positive zero sum realities are set up so that distribution is consensual and doesn’t bother people TOO much! That’s what your referring to as a balanced reality.

Are we currently fucked?! Hell yes we are!

There is not one being in existence who is currently not in some form of hell. People find this offensive because they think (religiously) that the highest state of consciousness sees everything as perfect!

I know enough about the spirit world (please don’t roll your eyes) that if the souls came together to create a positive NON zero sum reality for all of us, it’d be done.

I’m an activist, but I’m also waiting on the sidelines.


Life isn't a zero-sum transaction for anyone who can enjoy any aspect of it. Maybe it seems that way to you because your empathy for the suffering prevents you from enjoying the goods life offers you.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:21 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Positive zero sum realities are set up so that distribution is consensual and doesn’t bother people TOO much! That’s what your referring to as a balanced reality.

Are we currently fucked?! Hell yes we are!

There is not one being in existence who is currently not in some form of hell. People find this offensive because they think (religiously) that the highest state of consciousness sees everything as perfect!

I know enough about the spirit world (please don’t roll your eyes) that if the souls came together to create a positive NON zero sum reality for all of us, it’d be done.

I’m an activist, but I’m also waiting on the sidelines.


Life isn't a zero-sum transaction for anyone who can enjoy any aspect of it. Maybe it seems that way to you because your empathy for the suffering prevents you from enjoying the goods life offers you.


Why should it be any other way? When I detect any consent violation, I know I’m being threatened.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:38 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Positive zero sum realities are set up so that distribution is consensual and doesn’t bother people TOO much! That’s what your referring to as a balanced reality.

Are we currently fucked?! Hell yes we are!

There is not one being in existence who is currently not in some form of hell. People find this offensive because they think (religiously) that the highest state of consciousness sees everything as perfect!

I know enough about the spirit world (please don’t roll your eyes) that if the souls came together to create a positive NON zero sum reality for all of us, it’d be done.

I’m an activist, but I’m also waiting on the sidelines.


Life isn't a zero-sum transaction for anyone who can enjoy any aspect of it. Maybe it seems that way to you because your empathy for the suffering prevents you from enjoying the goods life offers you.


Why should it be any other way? When I detect any consent violation, I know I’m being threatened.


Empathy has a dark side.



Many consider empathy to be the basis of moral action. However, the ability to empathize with others is also a prerequisite for deliberate acts of humiliation and cruelty. In The Dark Sides of Empathy, Fritz Breithaupt contends that people often commit atrocities not out of a failure of empathy but rather as a direct consequence of over-identification and a desire to increase empathy. Even well-meaning compassion can have many unintended consequences, such as intensifying conflicts or exploiting others.

Empathy plays a central part in a variety of highly problematic behaviors. From mere callousness to terrorism, exploitation to sadism, and emotional vampirism to stalking, empathy all too often motivates and promotes malicious acts. After tracing the development of empathy as an idea in German philosophy, Breithaupt looks at a wide-ranging series of case studies―from Stockholm syndrome to Angela Merkel's refugee policy and from novels of the romantic era to helicopter parents and murderous cheerleader moms―to uncover how narcissism, sadism, and dangerous celebrity obsessions alike find their roots in the quality that, arguably, most makes us human. https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Sides-Empat ... 260&sr=8-1
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Ecmandu » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:41 pm

Felix,

And I was dark as it gets. I tried to destroy existence!
Not something I’d recommend to anyone! (Empathy wise). It takes a lot to destroy even one soul, can you imagine trying to destroy an infinite number and all of them?!?!
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Dan~ » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:36 am

Ecmandu wrote:Felix,

And I was dark as it gets. I tried to destroy existence!
Not something I’d recommend to anyone! (Empathy wise). It takes a lot to destroy even one soul, can you imagine trying to destroy an infinite number and all of them?!?!


Sometimes it is impossible to destroy something but you can change its location.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Dan~ » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:38 am

Many consider empathy to be the basis of moral action. However, the ability to empathize with others is also a prerequisite for deliberate acts of humiliation and cruelty. In The Dark Sides of Empathy, Fritz Breithaupt contends that people often commit atrocities not out of a failure of empathy but rather as a direct consequence of over-identification and a desire to increase empathy. Even well-meaning compassion can have many unintended consequences, such as intensifying conflicts or exploiting others.


According to some type of Jediism, love should be avoided and replaced by the will to help everyone equally instead of playing favorites.

I was reminded of that when i read your post.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:30 pm

Dan~ wrote:
Many consider empathy to be the basis of moral action. However, the ability to empathize with others is also a prerequisite for deliberate acts of humiliation and cruelty. In The Dark Sides of Empathy, Fritz Breithaupt contends that people often commit atrocities not out of a failure of empathy but rather as a direct consequence of over-identification and a desire to increase empathy. Even well-meaning compassion can have many unintended consequences, such as intensifying conflicts or exploiting others.


According to some type of Jediism, love should be avoided and replaced by the will to help everyone equally instead of playing favorites.

I was reminded of that when i read your post.


Will has a dark side too. The pursuit of wholeness, it seems to me, is a quest for balance.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Dan~ » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:36 pm

felix dakat wrote:Will has a dark side too. The pursuit of wholeness, it seems to me, is a quest for balance.


Power transcends light and dark because power can turn a negative into a positive or a positive into a negative.

Power means balance can be exerted at the cost of abundant energy.

Power transcends balance.

Power is potency. Not to be mistaken for political power.
Political power is vile.

Animal power, the power to exist and live, is a form of strength, too.
Strength is health.

Something to think about.
I like http://www.accuradio.com , internet radio.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby felix dakat » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:19 pm

Dan~ wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Will has a dark side too. The pursuit of wholeness, it seems to me, is a quest for balance.


Power transcends light and dark because power can turn a negative into a positive or a positive into a negative.

Power means balance can be exerted at the cost of abundant energy.

Power transcends balance.

Power is potency. Not to be mistaken for political power.
Political power is vile.

Animal power, the power to exist and live, is a form of strength, too.
Strength is health.

Something to think about.


"Power" is ambiguous. You narrowed it down slightly by excluding political power. But, all political power isn't vile either. Political power has done things like feed the poor.
Last edited by felix dakat on Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The purpose of my life would seem to be to express the truth as I discover it, but in such a manner that it is completely devoid of authority. By having no authority, by being seen by all as utterly unreliable, I express the truth and put everyone in a contradictory position where they can only save themselves by making the truth their own.
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Re: Wholeness

Postby Dan~ » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:26 pm

This is because you have a different idea about what power is and what political is.

When i refer to political power, the vile kind,
i mean, everybody obeying an individual.
The more people you control, the more power you gain.

Charity and government can cause one another.
I never said good and government can't mix.

I tried to describe power by referring it to animal power.

It is that which can secure your life and make your will manifest in the world.

The definitions of my words are my own a little bit.
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