Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Anomaly654 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:59 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:I Corinthians 15:22 on universal salvation. As my friend Bill would put it, "What part of "ALL" don't you understand?"


There are many references to hell, --- which denies universalism.

You should not ignore half the bible if you are to quote it.

I think you're preaching to a crowd that is dwindling. I've been following atheist arguments for over 20 years and as is also true of theist arguments, the atheist ones have certain recurring themes...like appealing in their arguments to the lowest common denominator in (most of the time) Christianity, the literalists. There are still a reasonable number of them around but they're thinning out; your target audience is shrinking. There is an underlying semantical system system in the Bible which is both rational (dictionary type, not philosophical) and allegorical by which it can be demonstrated that the hell passages are metaphors for internal [spiritual] cleansing, most likely accomplished in time. The promotion of any allegorical system of interpretation has traditionally been considered a treading ground of religious liberalism, but this allegorical system--while it certainly rocks the literalist boat (universal salvation is a prime tenet)--nonetheless not only supports most traditional doctrines, it offers even stronger evidence of the supernatural orchestration of the Bible than literalism can claim, and I find those claims reasonably impressive.

Point: interpreting the Bible differently than the traditional literalist way, if that interpretation is able to account for entire themes (like the hell passages for instance) is not "ignoring half the bible". The Cor. 15 passage noted is not cherry picking when hell as a "refining" process has been factored in.
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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:37 pm

I can't seem to wrap my mind around the myth that some demiurge created the World. The ethics of Gnostic Christianity sound reasonable and good. Why obscure that fact with an alternative creation mythology?
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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Anomaly654 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:06 pm

Ierrellus wrote:I can't seem to wrap my mind around the myth that some demiurge created the World. The ethics of Gnostic Christianity sound reasonable and good. Why obscure that fact with an alternative creation mythology?

And yet on the other side of the issue there are those who find notion of a designer perfectly reasonable. What I am most interested in is what account can be given for the motives that form the beliefs on each side--more accurately, what are the parameters by which those motives come into being? But am leaving the topic of the op so I'll defer the explanation for another thread another time.
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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:14 pm

Anomaly654 wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:I can't seem to wrap my mind around the myth that some demiurge created the World. The ethics of Gnostic Christianity sound reasonable and good. Why obscure that fact with an alternative creation mythology?

And yet on the other side of the issue there are those who find notion of a designer perfectly reasonable. What I am most interested in is what account can be given for the motives that form the beliefs on each side--more accurately, what are the parameters by which those motives come into being? But am leaving the topic of the op so I'll defer the explanation for another thread another time.

An appropriate post. Whose motives would you like to hear about? The believers' or what is believed to be the Gods'? Why can't the designer be natural, not supernatural? Is a motive of the creator to chastise that which was created?
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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:03 pm

Ierrellus wrote:The Devil wrote the Bible".--MH
I never said I agreed with him. For me the Bible is a fat udder for spiritual infants. It can nourish if read carefully.


If your reading concludes with you recognizing that Yahweh is a prick, you have read it right.

If not. Read it again for the first time.

The bible has us doomed by design.

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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:06 pm

Bob wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:The Devil wrote the Bible".--MH
I never said I agreed with him. For me the Bible is a fat udder for spiritual infants. It can nourish if read carefully.

After listening to the Bible videos by Jordan Peterson, I believe that psychologically there is a lot in the Bible, but we have forgotten how to read it.


I would not say that we forgot. I would say that the insane literalist reading of their myth has them thinking stupidly and immorally.

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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:19 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:So what you seem to be saying, as I read it, is that Gnostic Christians are kind of infallible and can have no biases, no wrongful thinking. How deep do you think the psyche or core of a human being goes anyway?


:D :D

On the contrary. We embrace our biases, both positive and negative.

Our negative bias goes against those who discriminate without a just cause. Those include the misogynous and homophobic.

For evil to grow and all that.

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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:21 pm

Ierrellus wrote:My last post was based on Greatest Iam's admission of having a Bible in his home. I wrote sentences that might evoke his response. I did not say that the Bible is never spiritually nourishing. Bob is right. One's attitude about the book depends on how it is read. It can offer ideas of brotherly (and sisterly) love or excuses for violence and hatred. I just wanted to see if GIA throws out the baby with the bath water.


Baby! ??

Are you talking about my retaining the genocidal and infanticidal baby prick named Yahweh?

Do you read him as a good god?

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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:28 pm

Anomaly654 wrote:[q

Point: interpreting the Bible differently than the traditional literalist way, if that interpretation is able to account for entire themes (like the hell passages for instance) is not "ignoring half the bible". The Cor. 15 passage noted is not cherry picking when hell as a "refining" process has been factored in.


Refining??

The product refined is always refined to be purified and kept.

The product of souls, according to scriptures, is to be it's destruction and not refined and retained.

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Re: Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:31 pm

Ierrellus wrote:I can't seem to wrap my mind around the myth that some demiurge created the World. The ethics of Gnostic Christianity sound reasonable and good. Why obscure that fact with an alternative creation mythology?


Myths have to be fought with myths.

We do not care about how we got here. Who cares?

It is our morals and ethics while here that is important to us.

What do you hold as most important?

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