Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during our pr

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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby phyllo » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:13 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
phyllo wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
The fact that all life worships its own likeness, is proven when you, as an example of life, tell us what your first love and if you aspired to emulate or mimic the one you loved.

I cannot prove anything. Only you can.

Regards
DL
That doesn't prove anything because worship is not equivalent to love.

Aside from that, there is the small matter I shouldn't be used as test of your claim because I'm a man and your claim is that men worship gods instead of their own natural likeness. If I say that I worship my likeness, then your claim would be contradicted.


A few exceptions makes no significant change to the policy stated as the traits you idol worship in any god are human characteristics.

Regards
DL

So the statement "All swans are white" is not refuted or undermined when a black swan is discovered?

That's good to know.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:25 pm

[quote="phyllo"]

I do not agree with the words you put in my mouth.

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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:50 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Does a baby not smile at it's mother and father?
If I smile at something, I am worshipping it? I have seen babies smile at dogs, cats, balls, snow......

[/quote]

The fact that we all emulate as babies show our desire to mimic who we mimic for endearment and protection.
mimicing something for endearment and protection is not worship.

You are right that we will try to smile/cooperate with everything as that is our default position, given that we are born the weakest and most insecure animal on the planet.
If you think babies coorperate with everything you msut not have had a close relationship with a baby. They can be cranky, complain, not be satified and they make their complaints and upsettness quite clear. You keep using terms that are not the same as 'worship' to justify the idea that babies worship.

here you say that babies smile/cooperate with everything, which means that it is not merely their likeness they do this with.

I accept your view on imprinting.

The one imprinting still sees the other as one of his tribe.

Our selfish gene want the protection of the tribe regardless of what species the members are from.
[/quote]Here you acknowledge that imprinting (not worship) will take place between species. So it is not the likeness that is important. Even if the creature is really quite fantasitically different from the baby, the baby will monitor and imitate (if it can) the behavior of the other. It will feel comfort in the presence of that creature, regardless of the fur, feathers, baldness, intelligence, language, power, number of hands, species, of the other.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:55 am

Greatest I am wrote:
phyllo wrote:
It appears that neither animals(aside from humans) or plants engage in worship. So why do you say that "all life worships its own likeness"?

That's the key point that I'm trying to get at.


The fact that all life worships its own likeness, is proven when you, as an example of life, tell us what your first love and if you aspired to emulate or mimic the one you loved.

I cannot prove anything. Only you can.

Regards
DL
That doesn't prove anything because worship is not equivalent to love.

Aside from that, there is the small matter I shouldn't be used as test of your claim because I'm a man and your claim is that men worship gods instead of their own natural likeness. If I say that I worship my likeness, then your claim would be contradicted.


A few exceptions makes no significant change to the policy stated as the traits you idol worship in any god are human characteristics.

Regards
DL
A few exceptions definitely eliminates the possibility that using the word 'all' is appropriate.

And then since worship and love are not the same thing, as he points out, it is not merely a few exceptions. It is a not appropriate use of language.

And since you are trying to draw conclusions about worshipping God and theism, the whole argument comes apart.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:58 am

Greatest I am wrote:
phyllo wrote:
I do not agree with the words you put in my mouth.

Regards
DL


You say All X are Y.
He demonstrates that this is not the case and you acknowledge that there are exceptions.
But you do not concede that your use of 'all' was incorrect.

His example with the black swan is exactly what you are doing.

It's a small thing for you to concede that, alright, not all, but most.

And if it is so important to your argument that you must deny that your use of 'all' was incorrect, then the honorable thing is to concede and see what the truth is.

Otherwise this is just another preacher who cannot admit mistakes, and we've sure had a lot of that in the history of Abrahamism.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Mowk » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:12 pm

Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during our present animal extinction event?

Nature gives us life and spirit. Our spirit gives us god. A god within each of us is very ancient thinking.

We cannot define our gods exactly. We can only use analogies.

I think that supernatural gods do not need anything from us. They do not need toys.

If we are to serve any god, it should be one that gives life and that is Earth.

Earth cannot speak. Only life in the form of a man can.

In the natural world, all life worships its own natural likeness. All except man.

Why are we fighting nature, and idol worshiping imaginary gods, as we destroy our eco system?

Regards
DL


simplistic thinking is poor thinking.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:48 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Does a baby not smile at it's mother and father?
If I smile at something, I am worshipping it? I have seen babies smile at dogs, cats, balls, snow......



The fact that we all emulate as babies show our desire to mimic who we mimic for endearment and protection.
mimicing something for endearment and protection is not worship.

You are right that we will try to smile/cooperate with everything as that is our default position, given that we are born the weakest and most insecure animal on the planet.
If you think babies coorperate with everything you msut not have had a close relationship with a baby. They can be cranky, complain, not be satified and they make their complaints and upsettness quite clear. You keep using terms that are not the same as 'worship' to justify the idea that babies worship.

here you say that babies smile/cooperate with everything, which means that it is not merely their likeness they do this with.

I accept your view on imprinting.

The one imprinting still sees the other as one of his tribe.

Our selfish gene want the protection of the tribe regardless of what species the members are from.
[/quote]Here you acknowledge that imprinting (not worship) will take place between species. So it is not the likeness that is important. Even if the creature is really quite fantasitically different from the baby, the baby will monitor and imitate (if it can) the behavior of the other. It will feel comfort in the presence of that creature, regardless of the fur, feathers, baldness, intelligence, language, power, number of hands, species, of the other.[/quote]

Your language is too narrow and if you cannot open it up we may as well forget this talk.

I am not interested in debating the definition of words.

Try to think the way this poem does, in a broad spectrum. If you cannot, I don't know where you wish to go from here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkZg1ZflpJs

He uses the work "king" as a general term for ideal and that should screw you right up, unless you get into a more general mindset.

Regards
DL
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:49 pm

Mowk wrote:
Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during our present animal extinction event?

Nature gives us life and spirit. Our spirit gives us god. A god within each of us is very ancient thinking.

We cannot define our gods exactly. We can only use analogies.

I think that supernatural gods do not need anything from us. They do not need toys.

If we are to serve any god, it should be one that gives life and that is Earth.

Earth cannot speak. Only life in the form of a man can.

In the natural world, all life worships its own natural likeness. All except man.

Why are we fighting nature, and idol worshiping imaginary gods, as we destroy our eco system?

Regards
DL


simplistic thinking is poor thinking.


Nice complicated argument. You win this one. #-o #-o

Regards
DL
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:51 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
phyllo wrote:
I do not agree with the words you put in my mouth.

Regards
DL


You say All X are Y.
He demonstrates that this is not the case and you acknowledge that there are exceptions.
But you do not concede that your use of 'all' was incorrect.

His example with the black swan is exactly what you are doing.

It's a small thing for you to concede that, alright, not all, but most.

And if it is so important to your argument that you must deny that your use of 'all' was incorrect, then the honorable thing is to concede and see what the truth is.

Otherwise this is just another preacher who cannot admit mistakes, and we've sure had a lot of that in the history of Abrahamism.


If all you are going to do is expect a legal discourse where all agree on the meaning of words, go find it elsewhere.

I am not here to discuss the meanings of well defined words.

Regards
DL
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Mowk » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:15 pm

We cannot define our gods exactly. We can only use analogies.


Seems like you don't care to define anything accurately.

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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:35 pm

Mowk wrote:
We cannot define our gods exactly. We can only use analogies.


Seems like you don't care to define anything accurately.

Regards


I specified god.

Thanks for showing your inaccurate character and wish to win some point enough to distort and lie about what is at issue.

What a puny ugly mind. I hope you are young enough to outgrow such vile traits.

Regards
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Mowk » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:49 pm

So you like ugly huh?

Grown up to see you are staying on topic huh?

Listen I agree, present extinction period, not a good thing. That you want to solve it with a naturalistic view of god?

You haven't even presented your argument clearly.

One minute you are talking about how to view god and the next you're babbling on about who knows what. I too hope you grow out of it.

Oops forgot the "regards"
Last edited by Mowk on Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Mowk » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:50 pm

Bully doesn't get his way and doesn't argue his case, he uses attempts at insults instead.

Atheists don't worship.

Oops forgot the "regards"
Last edited by Mowk on Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Mowk » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:46 pm

Why are we fighting nature, and idol worshiping imaginary gods, as we destroy our eco system?


Also a good question, even if rather convoluted.

imaginary gods


What type of a god?... "an imaginary one". Why is there any need to define that sentiment further?

So no, I don't think an "imaginary" naturalistic view of a god is going to be beneficial in any way that is good for the earth or the rate species are going extinct.

regards, back-atcha.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Mowk » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:27 am

phyllo wrote:

In the natural world, all life worships its own natural likeness. All except man.


How do you know what fish, cats or shrubs worship? Or if they worship anything?



We are told in scriptures to mimic god.

All life mimics its own.

You do not see fish trying to be cats or cats idol worship or act like shrubs.

Regards
DL
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Mowk » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:37 am

And by the by. Loose the signature. You don't mean it with any degree of conviction. You insult someone and end it with regards. Sounds to me like you hold nothing but contempt for those who don't agree with you.
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Mowk » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:23 am

What would be of assistance?
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:55 pm

What would "a naturalistic view of god" entail? What would it be like?
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:34 pm

Mowk wrote:Bully doesn't get his way and doesn't argue his case, he uses attempts at insults instead.

Atheists don't worship.


Only if you keep your definitions too narrow.

Try thinking as this idol worshiper does. I do not like where he ends up but his descriptions are bang on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkZg1ZflpJs

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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:39 pm

Mowk wrote:phyllo wrote:

In the natural world, all life worships its own natural likeness. All except man.


How do you know what fish, cats or shrubs worship? Or if they worship anything?


]


Do you have an idea as to what you would consider an ideal god or ideology for yourself to try to emulate?

I will wager that it is quite human like or human based as that is all you could ever mimic or emulate.

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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Mowk wrote:And by the by. Loose the signature. You don't mean it with any degree of conviction. You insult someone and end it with regards. Sounds to me like you hold nothing but contempt for those who don't agree with you.


Personal garbage.

Here's a quarter. Call someone who cares.

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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:43 pm

Ierrellus wrote:What would "a naturalistic view of god" entail? What would it be like?


Like the natives still do, by showing a respect for nature.

Compare that to the wanton destruction we are correctly doing with nature by having some guy in the sky god instead of seeing as an ideal and godlike the Earth that sustains us.

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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:22 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:What would "a naturalistic view of god" entail? What would it be like?


Like the natives still do, by showing a respect for nature.

Compare that to the wanton destruction we are correctly doing with nature by having some guy in the sky god instead of seeing as an ideal and godlike the Earth that sustains us.

Regards
DL

Agree. =D>
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby phyllo » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:00 pm

I don't know why people would adopt such a 'god' at this point in time. Any reasons why they would?
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Re: Would a naturalistic view of god be beneficial during ou

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:42 pm

phyllo wrote:I don't know why people would adopt such a 'god' at this point in time. Any reasons why they would?


The main reason is that our instincts push us to join a tribe. All a religion is is a tribal unit.

Our selfish gene craves security and for a tribal species, that security/fellowship is found in tribes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64_El2s7FU

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