Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Gloominary » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:36 pm

Jakob wrote:Belief is a great risk, and one that an intelligent being will prefer not to take.

"Supernatural" reeks of contradiction.

Unnatural is bad enough.

The supernatural is a normally imperceptible higher plane or realm of being and its inhabitants.

The preternatural is a normally imperceptible parallel plane or realm of being and its inhabitants.

There's no internal contradiction here, the only question is, do higher or parallel worlds exist, or are they merely products of our imagination?

I tend to think there's some truth to them, but my approach to them is experimental and speculative rather than dogmatic.

The unnatural is something manmade or the product of a sentient mind.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:17 pm

Jakob wrote:Belief is a great risk, and one that an intelligent being will prefer not to take.

"Supernatural" reeks of contradiction.

Unnatural is bad enough.


Contradictions, lies, fraud and hypocrisy.

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:23 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:.


"the one which people believe is a personal loving entity,"
[/quote]

Yes, a genocidal god that they want to get closer to.

That shows the full immorality of Christian thinking.

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Gloominary » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:14 am

No one or institution including mainstream academia has a monopoly on reason, research and publicly reviewing each others work.
We can all publicly review each others work as individuals, or members of an (alt) discipline.
There is no absolute authority if any.
For me, individual authority comes first, followed closely by the authority of the people.
We as individuals, and a democracy decide who the experts are, if there are any, experts aren't self-appointed.
This is what I call epistemic populism, and it stands in stark contrast to academicism, rigid ideologues, scientism and religionism.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:35 am

Greatest I am wrote:So what a doctor would do for your is no more important than the witch doctor.

And it should be added that 'witch doctor' in contrast to some Western expert, in this case a doctor, is a colonialist cliche. It started as a smug contrast between cultures, where one had the power to eradicate the other.

Greatest's main beef is with the Abrahamists. I doubt he intended to slight third world cultures however much he might judge religions and spiritual and health practices in these other cultures.

But one interesting thing for me is a certain kind of male hatred, in Western cultures, aimed at anything that seems to have to do with the supernatural, alternative health, organic food, spirituality, and alternative takes on current events. And it's here the Abrahamists and the technocrats have long been allies.

Any individual who comes at these things differently than the sanctioned by authority - AMA, Pope, mainstream media take - is evil: a quack, some who fools dying people out of money, an anti-semite, an irrational nutjob.

Of course many men are on the other side of this and many women have a lot of bile against alternatives. But I seem to encounter the rage primarily in men.

In the religious/spiritual world, if you claim to have some insight into entities and processes not yet verified by science or via a process not yet verified by science, then it must be bullshit. And the various churches tend to want you out of the business also. God is transcendent, there are no regular human bridges to anything special.

Be small, you bags of chemicals and do what you are told.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm

Gloominary wrote:No one or institution including mainstream academia has a monopoly on reason, research and publicly reviewing each others work.
We can all publicly review each others work as individuals, or members of an (alt) discipline.
There is no absolute authority if any.
For me, individual authority comes first, followed closely by the authority of the people.
We as individuals, and a democracy decide who the experts are, if there are any, experts aren't self-appointed.
This is what I call epistemic populism, and it stands in stark contrast to academicism, rigid ideologues, scientism and religionism.


We are too busy making our children into our image through indoctrination to teach them the type of critical thinking you want.

In fact, today, we seem to want to dumb down our population.

The dim are a lot easier to control and manipulate than the bright.

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:So what a doctor would do for your is no more important than the witch doctor.

And it should be added that 'witch doctor' in contrast to some Western expert, in this case a doctor, is a colonialist cliche. It started as a smug contrast between cultures, where one had the power to eradicate the other.

Greatest's main beef is with the Abrahamists. I doubt he intended to slight third world cultures however much he might judge religions and spiritual and health practices in these other cultures.

But one interesting thing for me is a certain kind of male hatred, in Western cultures, aimed at anything that seems to have to do with the supernatural, alternative health, organic food, spirituality, and alternative takes on current events. And it's here the Abrahamists and the technocrats have long been allies.

Any individual who comes at these things differently than the sanctioned by authority - AMA, Pope, mainstream media take - is evil: a quack, some who fools dying people out of money, an anti-semite, an irrational nutjob.

Of course many men are on the other side of this and many women have a lot of bile against alternatives. But I seem to encounter the rage primarily in men.

In the religious/spiritual world, if you claim to have some insight into entities and processes not yet verified by science or via a process not yet verified by science, then it must be bullshit. And the various churches tend to want you out of the business also. God is transcendent, there are no regular human bridges to anything special.

Be small, you bags of chemicals and do what you are told.


Right over your head.

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:08 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Right over your head.
Facile.
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:56 pm

Greatest I am
ad: The one which people believe is a personal loving entity,"

gia: Yes, a genocidal god that they want to get closer to.
That shows the full immorality of Christian thinking.


No, not really. I do, for the most part, believe that people who actually do "see" a personal loving God want to get close to that God and wish no harm to anyone. That is not immorality.

It only becomes immorality when a particular creature, for instance, decides to bomb a city in the name of God. There is a distinction.

What I think that it is though insofar as the former is concerned is not taking the time to think things out, to think clearly and slowly, and to look at everything which surrounds them, including contradictions, in order to come up with a better judgment call.

We all do that and you yourself are not innocent of it. We are all biased in our thinking or many of us are at different times.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Greatest I am
ad: The one which people believe is a personal loving entity,"

gia: Yes, a genocidal god that they want to get closer to.
That shows the full immorality of Christian thinking.


No, not really. I do, for the most part, believe that people who actually do "see" a personal loving God want to get close to that God and wish no harm to anyone. That is not immorality.

It only becomes immorality when a particular creature, for instance, decides to bomb a city in the name of God. There is a distinction.

What I think that it is though insofar as the former is concerned is not taking the time to think things out, to think clearly and slowly, and to look at everything which surrounds them, including contradictions, in order to come up with a better judgment call.

We all do that and you yourself are not innocent of it. We are all biased in our thinking or many of us are at different times.


I agree with your last.

The Christian bias of idol worshiping a genocidal god while proclaiming he is good shows how immoral their ideology has made them.

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:51 pm

GIA

The Christian bias of idol worshiping a genocidal god while proclaiming he is good shows how immoral their ideology has made them.



Who is it who proclaimed God a genocidal one?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:33 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:GIA

The Christian bias of idol worshiping a genocidal god while proclaiming he is good shows how immoral their ideology has made them.



Who is it who proclaimed God a genocidal one?


The victims and the bible.

Have you read of all the times god kills en mass?

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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:39 pm

GIA


Have you read of all the times god kills en mass?


So, what are you saying here? That you actually believe this garbage? Do you believe in a genocidal God? I sometimes get the sense that you do believe in some kind of a God. You seem to be so angry and you seem to feed that anger.

If you do not believe in God though, what do you say to people who do and who believe that their God is responsible for all of the misery in the world?

The Christian bias of idol worshiping a genocidal god while proclaiming he is good shows how immoral their ideology has made them.


I would like you to show me how this is true, how they have become immoral because of this. Give me an example. The way I look at it, immoral IS as immoral does.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s ga

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:41 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:GIA


Have you read of all the times god kills en mass?


So, what are you saying here? That you actually believe this garbage? Do you believe in a genocidal God? I sometimes get the sense that you do believe in some kind of a God. You seem to be so angry and you seem to feed that anger.

If you do not believe in God though, what do you say to people who do and who believe that their God is responsible for all of the misery in the world?

The Christian bias of idol worshiping a genocidal god while proclaiming he is good shows how immoral their ideology has made them.


I would like you to show me how this is true, how they have become immoral because of this. Give me an example. The way I look at it, immoral IS as immoral does.


I am not a literalist and read the bible as myth, not history.

I am a Gnostic Christian and hold no supernatural beliefs whatsoever.

What I am angry with is a religion that is homophobic and misogynous and has somehow convinced half decent people that a genocidal god is somehow good.

If theists continue to praise a god who they see as directly creating all the evils of the world, then I would tell them that they are morally corrupted by their beliefs.

As to your last. Morals are a learned thing to a large extent. Secular law and few people will praise a genocidal entity yet Christianity does.

Where else would Christians learn such a foul way to think?

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