Do atheists have the right...?

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Do atheists have the right...?

Postby bahman » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:50 pm

Do atheist have the right to ask God to prove Himself at the day of their judgment before going to Hell?
The sincerity in mind is the door to divine knowledge.
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby promethean75 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:04 pm

"A strange thing happened to me in my dream. I was rapt into the Seventh Heaven. There sat all the gods assembled. As a special dispensation I was granted the favor to have one wish. "Do you wish for youth," said Mercury, "or for beauty, or power, or a long life; or do you wish for the most beautiful woman, or any other of the many fine things we have in our treasure trove? Choose, but only one thing!" For a moment I was at a loss. Then I addressed the gods in this wise: "Most honorable contemporaries, I choose one thing — that I may always have the laughs on my side." Not one god made answer, but all began to laugh. From this I concluded that my wish had been granted and thought that the gods knew how to express themselves with good taste: for it would surely have been inappropriate to answer gravely: your wish has been granted." - soarin' kickorguard
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby Prismatic567 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:20 am

OP is a non-starter for non-theists or atheists since they do not have a belief in a God as a default.

Perhaps the question is relevant only for atheists who believe in Judgment Day.
If I am not mistaken the non-theists are sent direct to Hell on Judgment Day in accordance to the Quran and very likely by the Christian God.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:24 am

bahman wrote:Do atheist have the right to ask God to prove Himself at the day of their judgment before going to Hell?
Would they know it was J-day and how? If they know, then they believe and aren't atheists? Do you mean, if they happen to ask God to prove himself - presumably that he exists - on what is Judgment day do they have the right to?
They have the power to, which is pretty close to having the right, and since it would be in a sense a tentative neo-prayer, why not?
If you mean, do they have the right to demand that God demonstrate God exists, that's a different can of beans and I would think theists would have different answers.
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby bahman » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:21 pm

promethean75 wrote:"A strange thing happened to me in my dream. I was rapt into the Seventh Heaven. There sat all the gods assembled. As a special dispensation I was granted the favor to have one wish. "Do you wish for youth," said Mercury, "or for beauty, or power, or a long life; or do you wish for the most beautiful woman, or any other of the many fine things we have in our treasure trove? Choose, but only one thing!" For a moment I was at a loss. Then I addressed the gods in this wise: "Most honorable contemporaries, I choose one thing — that I may always have the laughs on my side." Not one god made answer, but all began to laugh. From this I concluded that my wish had been granted and thought that the gods knew how to express themselves with good taste: for it would surely have been inappropriate to answer gravely: your wish has been granted." - soarin' kickorguard

Nice gods. You were lucky that you were not rapt in Seventh Hell!
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby bahman » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:26 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:OP is a non-starter for non-theists or atheists since they do not have a belief in a God as a default.

But they might wonder whether there is a God when they die at their judgment day. They are about to be sent to Hell.
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby bahman » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:42 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
bahman wrote:Do atheist have the right to ask God to prove Himself at the day of their judgment before going to Hell?

Would they know it was J-day and how? If they know, then they believe and aren't atheists?

Not necessary. They might be skeptic even in such a situation. They are about to be sent to Hell. So the question is valid? Why they should be sent to Hell if they don't receive any proof or if God cannot prove Himself?

Another question also comes to my mind: Suppose God prove them that He is God. They are not atheist anymore. Are they sent to Hell after they are given the proof?

Karpel Tunnel wrote:Do you mean, if they happen to ask God to prove himself - presumably that he exists - on what is Judgment day do they have the right to?
They have the power to, which is pretty close to having the right, and since it would be in a sense a tentative neo-prayer, why not?
If you mean, do they have the right to demand that God demonstrate God exists, that's a different can of beans and I would think theists would have different answers.

I think the right to demand is the correct word.
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby promethean75 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:44 pm

You were lucky that you were not rapt in Seventh Hell!


The gods would never put kierkegaard in hell. They may be stupid, but they've got enough sense to be grateful that kierkegaard was kind enough to let them live. He could have just as easily destroyed them. Big K is not a philosopher to be played with by neither man nor god.
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby bahman » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:43 pm

promethean75 wrote:
You were lucky that you were not rapt in Seventh Hell!


The gods would never put kierkegaard in hell. They may be stupid, but they've got enough sense to be grateful that kierkegaard was kind enough to let them live. He could have just as easily destroyed them. Big K is not a philosopher to be played with by neither man nor god.

Who is Mr. kiekegaard?
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby promethean75 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:52 pm

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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:13 am

bahman wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
bahman wrote:Do atheist have the right to ask God to prove Himself at the day of their judgment before going to Hell?

Would they know it was J-day and how? If they know, then they believe and aren't atheists?

Not necessary. They might be skeptic even in such a situation. They are about to be sent to Hell. So the question is valid? Why they should be sent to Hell if they don't receive any proof or if God cannot prove Himself?
If they know they are being sent to Hell, they have proof.

Another question also comes to my mind: Suppose God prove them that He is God. They are not atheist anymore. Are they sent to Hell after they are given the proof?
Depends on the criteria this God has for getting into Heaven, purgatory - if there is one, or Hell.

I think the right to demand is the correct word.
Depends again on the God. Even if we narrow it down to the Crhsitan God, there are probably a range of answers. If 'demand' in this case means that God is obligated to meet this demand, I think few religious people will think the answer is yes.

My own sense would be that with a punishment like eternal damnation, a loving God would want to give everyone incredible slack. Unbelievable slack.
On the other hand, I have no solid vantage to judge the degree of slack.
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Re: Do atheists have the right...?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed May 01, 2019 3:34 pm

bahman wrote:Do atheist have the right to ask God to prove Himself at the day of their judgment before going to Hell?



I do not want to assume so Is it your belief that your God would send atheists to hell?!
I think that that would make for a pretty arrogant God to give us minds to think with but only those thoughts which conform to God's pleasure and will. That is a pretty despotic God to say the least.

In what way would God have to prove Himself according to the atheist?
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


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― William Blake
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