I really appreciate all the contributions here so far.
I especially enjoyed Gloominary’s contributions and Serendipper’s recent replies. I’d like to study the Hebrew and Greek texts closer. I do NOT take the Bible literally, and I am currently reconciling scripture with evolution, along with supernatural acts described with what they could mean to life application in a non-supernatural way. I will admit that I take more of the NT literally than the OT, but the OT is so rich and moreso misinterpreted that the ‘can of worms’ of language and interpretaiton is something I am not learned in yet. I live in an enchanted world, full of music and learning, travel and the remembrance of my own past, to help others find theirs.
Greatest still has lots of things to explain, without all the repetition and emotional conjectures, some depth of sources and information. If good works were solely for boasting, then people are being arrogant and will lose touch with the faith and knowledge which forms the basis of good works. Ask yourself honestly, if you have done any good works recently, and in secret, should you establish and grow these things? I don’t care to know, but only want to instill these good habits in you and others, free of charge. I’m almost certain that Jesus talks about the importance of secret charity, dieting, and prayer in Matthew 6. I’m also almost certain most people don’t do any of these things in secret, and those who do these things strive to make them exaggerated for public display, for some deep sick self-esteem issue for which I do not share. If you do these things, I’m sure there will be change in your life.
I agree with Gloominary, ecumenism and new age crap is poisonous. Christianity is the supreme religion for obvious reasons, but human nature makes lots of people feel offended from this supremacy, the truth of it, the ethics of it.
You guys mention lots about dualism and pantheism, some deistic ideas, but forget panentheism. I like panentheism. I’m not sure what I believe, but I try to establish the foundations of what I know and move from simple principles, morally rewarding habits, and a natural philosophy that extends to as much material being as possible. Materialism often discounts the vastness of things, and claiming some things, forgets others. Are you particles or waves?
Also, about the misogyny and homophobic thing, America (and most of the West) has been feminized. A century or two ago, there was significantly less divorce, less anal and oral sex, less babies born out of wedlock, and less abortions. These things let the snake into the garden. Homosexual sexual acts breed disease and a divergence from family/procreation. Implicit and unintended consequences from touchy issues, that intend to free those in the minorities affected, have actually made society’s masses more shallow (along with the mass worship of mammon and baal). These minorities grow until they claim majority, and a moral superiority over others just because they are apart of a minority. I have always hated the sin and not the sinner, but unfortunately the gay community will have to repent for that which they insist defines them completely, and at times, makes them ‘superior’ to others because of inevitable oppression, public judgment, and tough times growing up. The real tough times are poverty, outlier intelligence, lack of family, love loss, deaths of loved/close ones… yet the feminization forgets these in a conquest to free those who are oppressed for more superficial reasons. This opens up the issue of whether some sins are worse than others, for example, gayness versus murder, or cheating on a partner versus telling white lies to children. Some theists level the playing field by insisting sin is sin, all humans are equally perverted and sinful and evil-leaning, some people insist that some sins are worse than others and put themselves in a rabbit hole of defining the hierarchy of moral abhorrence themselves. Personally, I insist, people haven’t read Leviticus in Hebrew and haven’t reconciled Jesus in Greek with the OT law. I haven’t yet either, so I can’t really face these issues honestly, but at least I know these things exist so, eventually, I can look for resolve.
Another big issue here is causality, which seems useless debating. I like the conversation surrounding scripture and morals, but temporal issues are way out in left field. The beginning of all things will forever be foreign to you and I, and when we abandon this obsession with knowing the first and last, we can know the understanding of these things come in faith. Faith for you may not mean to submit to a being existing only in an incorporeal ‘supernatural’ ultimate reality, but in accepting that our limited perception forces us to incorporate some randomness and vastness into our blundering beliefs.
I really enjoyed reading Serendipper’s Sly Man and The Devil story. At first, I was scared, and at last, I felt calm. There was no mention of Jesus, the popularity of the issue and stance, and no mention of a natural philosophy of things/the cosmos. Gurdjieff had some interesting beliefs, and of course, an amazing stache, so I’ll definitely be looking into him more. I don’t see myself in the groups listening to the devil who were sure to get to heaven boasting of their works. I am just some young guy from the north who would prefer a life of privacy and deep connections with few people. St. Peter is always at the gates, but where’s Paul and John? There was a Paul and John in the 1960s who made some good music, but it seems the big guy and the higher tier apostles are often missing in our latter day stories.
We have already mentioned the ten commandments, but there is also a promise before and a lengthy covenant afterwards. You guys read those? In Hebrew? Latin and English too? These things matter to me, even though lots of people have laughed at my drive to learn ‘dead’ languages.
In a thread posing the question of understanding Jesus and the Bible, we’ve spoken about first things and morals, but haven’t honestly addressed the question, not even the OP Greatest…
I have learned some things about Him, and the scripture, but only beginning to understand. The important part is my drive, and your drive, of some understanding and ideal of better-ness. The snakes will eventually be stomped out with bronze feet, with our tongues like swords, and the cleansing of our robes until the evil is separated from good by the sake of knowledge and progression through time so long.
