On the Divine Identity of Jesus

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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby Meno_ » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:58 am

felix dakat wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:One thing I am convinced of concerning gods is that they are by definition greater, "larger" than what any mortal can be completely right about. This is why there are 4 gospels for Jesus. Doing justice to a god requires a congregation. I believe this is what sets apart a god from a demon. Satan does not require a congregation, that is why he is fallen, he walks among us as one of us, and so he walks inside of men, as a friend, a companion, an equal or someone uncannily pretending to be.


An interesting perspective.


Jesus does not present himself as an equal, he always is more generous than what a mortal can be. The problem I have always had with the move of converting to his will is that his will isn't capable of dealing with everything a philosopher is concerned with. He is just there, like a sky of fresh air - but my spirit is also bound to the salt of the sea and the musk of the earth. The fact of the matter is that Christ did not reveal himself there, but Odin did. I believe that Revelation is the way a god makes himself known. This is why I am averse to dogma as a form of belief. I am not against dogma as a way of preserving the words of prophets and the records of divine events, but I believe that these form the riverbed to the body of communion.


That all makes sense to me.

I wish to lend my mind to facilitate the Christian faith in claiming the third millennium. I was of course deeply facetious with the whole cat thing, yet not without wishing to evoke an intuition about the change of the relationship of humans to animals which is going on, a very favourable trend of humanizing animals, which I suppose is the upside to the trend of animalizing humans. I am contemptuous in the extreme of the idea that animals to not cognize, there is much of consequence to be learned from the mentality of all warm blooded species. I used to dislike dogs when I was a child, now I am deeply fond of them. Dogs often bark as I pass buy - in my occult past barks of anguish and warning, now of uncontrollable excitement. It is very funny, the people who own the dogs are never aware of the dogs reasons and get all fussy. Dogs are in a field of consciousness that humans are too dull headed for, a field where the enjoyment of life is very strong and never collapses, a more acute sense of the present enabled by a richer apperceptive machinery.


Concernng animal cognition I heartily agree.

So as we humans have let our apperceptive machinery decay in favour of the planning mind, which doesn't really require any all too immediate knowledge, because the immediate is too contextual to universalize into methods. But the pleasure of life and thus also the meaning and the drive, the core of it is well represented by our pagan pantheons, which are accessible in walks in the woods, rowing a boat at dusk, sleeping in nice sheets, lighting a candle in a midnight garden, exchanging a glance with a dove, seeing the sky curl up and knowing what comes, hearing the message in a rodents cry, maple seeds gathering on the balcony, an unsuspected eclipse alone in a field, suddenly the silence of all of nature holding its breath; of all this Christianity did not speak, but this is what the Earth needs of us now, and I do not sense that the Christ is partial only to man - the son of man surely is a steward of the earth.


Now that we humans are destroying life on a global scale, it seems more precious to some of us.

A second coming was announced near the days of judgment. I say that it will likely benefit these humans that have turned to the earth - not for salvation, but for an excess of love. The earth is ready to receive the passion that has been built for the vulnerable during two thousand years. She is the proper recipient for the love that Christians have gathered across a hundred generations and across five continents. The cat serves me as a symbol of a cleanliness before the Earth.


Or we'll destroy life on the planet and Christ won't come which seems more realistic given the way we're going and the lack of evidence that would lead us to expect that Christ is going to return from heaven to save us from ourselves.



I do not necessarily concur. He must have come to realize that the antimony between the old and the new is not remideble , thus , His assumptions were not realistic about the temporal enlightenment through suffering and redemption. Why?

He knew the gods would be exiled, and that Zeus would seek revenge, of course on a compassionately course of comic relief, but it need Brunhilde (in Gottendamerung )who convinced him that his intellect would consign His Sacred Heart (in Parcifal) to be able to do It and consigned to find the absolute through the another way. I believe his coming is inevitable, , because even if it's only a myth It lives in our hearts as a kind of an unfinished tableau.

Man never ever leaves things , especially Redemption unfinished, otherwise his conscience may kill him
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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:14 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:My methodology is pretty direct, I just call on Jesus, I visit the holiest Christian places such as the church of the sepulchre in Jerusalem and many churches in Italy and France, I study the texts both canonical and disputed such as the dead Sea scrolls, and anything I can do to bring the spirit of the Christ in my presence. I've been doing such for two decades. I've had a lot of very vivid and personal experiences with Jesus as well as Mary as well as the Baptist. It is perfectly real to me, and pastors have recognized this in my demeanor, words and eyes over the years. I don't believe the intellect has much of a place here, only the open heart.

But still I don't claim Christianity. I claim the Aesir and the Olympians as my personal gods. But I consider the Christ and his flock my allies. Christians tend to have more of a backbone these days than secularists.


What inspired you to go in this direction?

The untimely and very mysterious death of my best friend when I was 20 gave me a shove in the direction, things followed from there.

Are the experiences of Jesus, Mary and the Baptist visual?

More than just visual, they're also personable and emotive, but very different om each other. Mary was the most emotive and dramatic one, she was with me for a week at one point and showed me what had been done to me when I was a child. I cant go into that but it left me completely changed in every fiber. And I suddenly knew how to pronounce French.

Jesus appears to me on a more ethereal plane. Very clearly and lucid, but I think he accepts Im not his primary concern. I know he appears to many Christians in all sorts of ways, sometimes deeply visceral. Ive heard beautiful and shocking stories on my travels.

The Baptist, he seems to govern occultism. I discovered that something very magical happens when I meditate on his name while I wash my hands and face with cold water. It feels like Im washing away the veil between the subjective present and some objective eternal version of what I am.

Mind you I don't do any of this frequently or lightly.

Why Aesir and the Olympians?

Thats a good question.
I can mostly say that the idea of death changed when I was touched by the Aesir, though it may have been one from the Vanir at first -
I think you know you've entered a religion when you become glad at the idea of dying for a god. I love them unconditionally.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:17 pm

felix dakat wrote:Concernng animal cognition I heartily agree.

Thats good to hear from your side.
I find this to be a very divisive point.
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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby felix dakat » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:47 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:
felix dakat wrote:Concernng animal cognition I heartily agree.

Thats good to hear from your side.
I find this to be a very divisive point.


Not sure what side I represent to you. We are in the sixth great extinction of life on earth. And this time we humans have brought it on. I am traumatized by the suffering we human primates bring to our animal brothers and sisters everyday. I work at reducing animal suffering. We have brought the earth out of balance and we will pay a great price for it. We could avert disaster but I don't see that happening and the cost becomes ever higher and the measures it would take more drastic.

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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:55 pm

Yes I realized after posting that was going to raise questions. Im not even sure what side I meant, I guess I vaguely referred to traditional Christians.

"I am traumatized by the suffering we human primates bring to our animal brothers and sisters everyday. I work at reducing animal suffering."

It seems we're on the same side.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:31 pm

All colourful poetry aside, do you not think Christ still has work cut out in terms of having us confront the reality of animal suffering?

One of the rare things that has given me optimism about the future, is the way meme-culture has actually managed to suggest the equality of humans and their pets. I really like this. I think this is the only valid way to have a pet, as a friend.

I do not think there is anything that our mind can do for us now except turn back downward. As much as I love our vast cosmos, I am deeply offended when I hear someone like Elon Musk state we need to prepare to leave the Earth because she is inevitably going to be ruined. This is perhaps the scummiest thing Ive ever heard. Either we go down with this planet or we perform some miracle to preserve and recultivate it.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby felix dakat » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:51 pm

We have a lot of work to do. At 7.7 billion and climbing the human population is unsustainable. Politicians don't even talk about this because it's political suicide.

The biggest threats to the animal world are habitat loss and global warming. But the suffering and cruelty of factory farming is unimaginable. And, of course there many other preventable forms of animal cruelty which must be stopped.

I'm a vegetarian and I support the worldwide wildlife fund, and care for rescued cats. If you have positive experiences with any nonprofits that are helping to reduce animal suffering let me know.

Empathy and compassion are mammalian and aren't limited to humans. Ethics is not something alien to our animal nature but is rather the direct outcome of the development of a feeling of commiseration with other beings

Compassion is born of the inability to bear to see the suffering of others. This capacity is present in most people as a seed and can be cultivated as the Confucianists taught.

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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby felix dakat » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:29 pm

I think Jesus was a man of extraordinary compassion. As an illegitimate child he experienced the suffering of being an outcast first-hand which enabled him to empathize with other outcasts of his world. His acceptance of the untouchables of society was what healed them. The New Testament reflects the reception, understanding and deification of Jesus according to a synthesis of Judaic and Hellenistic mythology.

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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:39 pm

I used to be a member of that organization too, Greenpeace as well and a local place that took care of stranded seals of which we had a lot then with changes to the inner sea, but eventually I saw that Greenpeace and a lot of other non profit things were turning into ideological battlegrounds about stuff that made them trivial. I never kept much hope, Ive tried being vegetarian but its not sustainable in my city current life. I prefer to eat fish over meat, we have a lot of that here, raw and smoked fish. I wish it were easier to get meats that come from animals that were treated well - but the laws are not like that. So I have quite a lot of problems picking food.

Sauwelios offered up the idea that meat has become too cheap. That in the past only the nobles would eat it, and when they did it would be a feast, and some animal might even be sacrificed to a god, as also the native Americans did. Id be in favour of tripling the meat prices for beef and pork, pretty horrible that we've got words for these species as dead meat.
In any case your response has given some substance to what it would mean to conduct Christ through ourselves toward he animal kingdom. Thank you!
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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:44 pm

Considering we are mortals, and we consume living things in any case, as do these living things, I do not think it is inherently evil to eat meat. I will add that I would never voluntarily eat duck, or of course a cat, or dog or -- I basically only eat the traditional Dutch farm animals, they've successfully been dehumanized for me since I was born. And I have to say chickens still don't seem to me to mind much whether they're dead or alive. Pigs on the other hand extremely so. Something can obviously be done there, it shouldn't be that much trouble to get the public mind around to this. People will pay a bit more if they are forced to be aware of what they're sponsoring. Its ultimately a no lose situation, the industry needs to be made to understand this. One has to go through quite distasteful arguments to make it even a little better - but my best bet for a gradual change would be on trying to make meat into a luxury, something that its naturally expensive. To this end it can simply be presented in commercials as something fitting to very lavish occasions. I can guarantee that it will taste better to people if they put more trouble in acquiring it. This is the case for most things but especially for meat, because it was living spirt and thus holds tremendous amounts of power. This is how may tribes approach their prey, they seek to transmute their spirit through the animals body. All that is sane, compared at least to our current approach.
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Re: On the Divine Identity of Jesus

Postby felix dakat » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:21 pm

Yes we the human primates are out of balance with nature. We are destroying life on this planet. If we don't voluntarily find the mean ourselves, nature will find it for us. I can envision it, but the pain and suffering that will bring on humanity and all life is exceeds my imagination. How can we who see this happening now best act to change the course that human society is on?

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