Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Scholars think so and so do I.

bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Scriptures warn against idol worship yet that is exactly what Christian and Muslims do.

If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

God is often thought of as an ideal.

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

Regards
DL

Jews have the Star of David … that’s idolatry. Technically, marriage, holidays, temples, churches and rites and ceremonies are idolatry.

So what if they are? What’s ‘bad’ about it?

The problem in idolatry is when the object becomes what is worshiped and loved as opposed to what it represents. It is not that one should not love or worship God. At least according to the religions. Judaism is more restrictive than the others.

So It disagree with the OP, which is spreading the meaning out to include any strong devotion to anything. Certainly many monotheists are idolators, but one can be an Abrahamic theist without being an idolator. In that case one knows the image is intended as something to connect one to what has the real value, God, Jesus, etc.

And then, as Phyllo asks, who cares?

There is hardly a person of type of believer, regardless of paradigm, who does not become attached to the symbols, words and images that represent something they value and yet is not the thing they value highest. I see no group that avoids this and agnostics also get attached to phrases and self-classifications - skeptic, doubt, opculation, no one can know - and even more so, if the OP was correct…

agnostics are just as attached to their epistemology as atheists and anyone else.

They think because of X, that we cannot know. They love that, potentially, their line of reasoning, their position, as much as all other kinds of believers.

I can agree with you on this.

Some of the old contemplative traditions used a blank wall to stare at of help them go into meditation to insure that nothing was idolized. Meditators try to get to a position of no thought, do not be for or against, so as to let their higher minds free rein.

Regards
DL

War and closed minds is what is bad about idolaters.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Regards
DL

And that’s different from non-idolaters? Non-idolaters don’t go to war and they don’t have closed minds?

That has not been my experience with them. although, sure, they will not change their view of uncertainty without facts. They are on the fence and open to being knocked off to either side depending on facts.

Regards
DL

Correct.

Because they are not sure, they choose flight instead of fight. Only believers and atheists see a prize from their fight. Agnostics have no prize in mind and flight is the natural choice.

Regards
DL

Wait a minute. Are you now equating idolaters with all believers/atheists and non-idolaters with agnostics?

That doesn’t seem reasonable. A person can be a non-idolater and a believer.

I am equating idolaters with all believers/atheists and non-idolaters with agnostics, yes.

Your last is counter intuitive. A believer names his God and that makes him an idolater. Unless you think he does not care much about the ideology of his God, and then the question becomes, why believe in a less than ideal God?

Perhaps I can make sense of what you put if you give an example.

Regards
DL

“Naming” god seems to be a fairly trivial act without much significance.

If he sees a less than ideal god, then that’s the god he believes exists.

What does “ideal god” mean? It has to be a fabrication unless he always calls god “ideal”.

Would be better to equate idolatry with gnostic theists and atheists and non idolatry with agnostic theists and atheists
As not all believers and non believers are absolutely certain that what they believe or do not believe is definitely true

Strange that you would see a person choosing a God and ideology to live life by as trivial.

If the God he selects is less than ideal, then why call it God, given that God is generally described as perfect?

Regards
DL

Sigh. To have the position that they will be swayed by facts means one has a set of epistemological beliefs about what a fact is. As I said already, they are certain about epistemology and you have just confirmed that you also believe they are.

You tried to make religious people appear to be hypocrites based on scriptural condemnations of idolatry. You have failed to do this because you do not use the term correctly, and certainly not as the scriptures do. You also simply list bad things they have done or believed, as if this demonstrates idolatry. But it does not. Your position, as it often is, is confused, but because you hate religions you seem to find it hard to let of whatever hot new angle, or gotcha you think you have found.

Your beliefs about the scriptural meaning of idolatry of incorrect. But you idolize your own incorrect belief and will not admit, even in the face of evidence that this is the case.

You probably do not think you have beliefs, even though you assert things all the time.

Gnostic theist is not a term I accept. Gnostics of all persuasion are esoteric ecumenists which negates our being theists. We do not recognize any of the Gods as true Gods and above us.

I also do not recognize the terms agnostic theists or agnostic atheist.

Both theists and atheists are firm in their position while agnostic and Gnostic Christians are not.

Regards
DL

Thanks for the personal garbage.

“what a fact is.”

If two people cannot agree on the definition for facts, then, like here, better to just shake my head and walk away.

I will let you get sidetracked by semantics and the definition of words.

Regards
DL.

It’s just incomprehensible how you manage to come to this conclusion when I wrote this : ‘“Naming” god seems to be a fairly trivial act without much significance.’
:confused:

Cause that’s the god he finds.

Is your choice of ideology, your ideal way of life, a trivial thing to you?

If not, why would you think it would be to a theist who choses his God and ideology?

Regards
DL

You seem to have some reading comprehension issues.