Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:58 pm

I suspect that the fact of evident neuroplasticity would shed doubt on attempts to localize dispositions as arising from specific locations in the brain topography. The brain appears to be more like a chameleon than an earthly geography. HCP is highly speculative.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:20 pm

What will be the side-effect of "moderating" anxiety cells?
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Ierrellus » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:51 pm

He has not shown any scientific study that reveals 'modulation" of anxiety cells. So they have been located in rat brains. So what. Too much information has been left out in P's account, pertinent information. Or it has been relegated to some distant future wherein the current research might prove to be true.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:52 pm

Ierrellus wrote:He has not shown any scientific study that reveals 'modulation" of anxiety cells. So they have been located in rat brains. So what. Too much information has been left out in P's account, pertinent information. Or it has been relegated to some distant future wherein the current research might prove to be true.
Setting aside the studies on rat brain for the moment ...

If you "modulate" anxiety cells, then you're going to be reducing all anxiety and not just the anxiety which gives rise to religious beliefs. That reduced anxiety can have unexpected effects.

For example, he wants to reduce terrorism. But it seems likely that existential angst, like fear of death, actually prevents some people from engaging in terrorism. If you modulate their anxiety cells, then you could end up with more terrorist acts. Those acts may not be motivated by passages in the Koran, they may be motivated by other ideologies. It's not like people will stop acting on their beliefs.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:24 pm

Fanman wrote:Serendipper,

What does it mean to be down? Yes I think when people are down they choose religion as a convenient way to feel uplifted (superior). Churches prey on praying people.


By "down", I mean at a point where self destructive behaviours have led to a person hitting rock bottom, where their life is in tatters and they're not able to function effectively. I think that at this stage people are very vulnerable, because if they cannot lift themselves out of the bad situation, any course of action or guiding principle offering redemption will seem like a way out to them. So I agree that churches can prey on praying people, but if they can offer a route out of trouble a person could take a calculated risk. If religion does help them, then the person who's helped (should they become religious) may conclude that it is God who has helped them; not seeing how much they did to help themselves.

Oh yes, mom says anything good that happens is of God and anything bad that happens is of the devil. Dad says everything is bad and good things are flukes. Alan Watts says whatever happens, I did it. This reminds me of:

Image

My view has always been that it depends whether you're filling the glass or emptying the glass. I'm not sure what that makes me :-k
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:35 pm

Fanman wrote:phyllo,

Human beings already know what's good them, but they become distracted and confused. Once they realize their error, then they can choose the good guiding principles. That's a common concept in all but the nihilistic philosophies/religions.


I agree, but some people aren't able to abate self-destructive behaviours, even though they're aware that such behaviours are extremely detrimental to their well-being. Good guiding principles are practicably a form of “a saviour”, but not everyone has the self-awareness necessary to recognise when they need them.

What are self-destructive behaviours?

Image

Do we chase money? Success? Or do we live as paupers? Do we strive to eat healthy? Abstain from smoking drinking? What's the point when we're going to die anyway? The point of the dance is to dance, not to get to the other side of the dance floor.

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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:03 pm

Alan Watts says whatever happens, I did it.
That's just as silly as Mom and Dad's positions.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Fanman » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:17 pm

Serendipper,

What are self-destructive behaviours?


Um, any behaviour engaged in to the point that it leads to a severe detriment in a persons quality of life, and that reduces a persons level of functionality? :-k

My view has always been that it depends whether you're filling the glass or emptying the glass. I'm not sure what that makes me :-k


Clever. If you fill the glass too much it spills over. Don't fill it enough and you won't get a decent drink. I like it =D>
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:39 pm

phyllo wrote:
Alan Watts says whatever happens, I did it.
That's just as silly as Mom and Dad's positions.

Yes I scratched my head on that one for a long time and still don't have it fully figured out. Even if I the ego is different from I the universe, why would I fight myself? Of course, his position is there is only "I". Yes, my parents are really screwed up and I'm still realizing the depths of it and what's worse is I came from them, so I'm screwed up too. I think the only thing I have that they do not is introspection. If you're crazy, how can you tell? The only thing I know to do is wait a couple years then reread what I wrote and think "Wow I was really screwed up when I wrote that!" But at the time, it seemed ok. So we can't know if we're crazy. Everyone else can be crazy, but we can't see it in ourselves.

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

So is Alan crazy or am I (or you)? Who is mixed up? Part of the reason I am here is to get to the bottom of that.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:11 pm

Fanman wrote:Serendipper,

What are self-destructive behaviours?


Um, any behaviour engaged in to the point that it leads to a severe detriment in a persons quality of life, and that reduces a persons level of functionality? :-k

So suicide bomber is no good? lol

At around 3:15 she says "A good death is its own reward" then the man attacks.



So if I jump on a motorbike with the plan to jump a canyon for fame and fortune, but miss and die, was it worth it?

If I spend years living with grizzly bears in the wild to document them before being eaten, was it worth it?

What about Christopher Reeves who fell off a horse and became a quadriplegic?

Or Charles Krauthammer who jumped in a pool at Harvard and broke his neck. Interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqW7iC42WM0

What is quality of life? What is functionality? What is the point to life?

My view has always been that it depends whether you're filling the glass or emptying the glass. I'm not sure what that makes me :-k


Clever. If you fill the glass too much it spills over. Don't fill it enough and you won't get a decent drink. I like it =D>


Have you seen the Pythagoras cup? If you get greedy and fill it too much, it all drains out :)

Image

But if someone fills a glass with tea then hands it to me, I'd say "Why it's only half-full!"

But if a waiter asks me if I need a refill, I'd say "No, thanks, it's only half-empty."

So whether it's full or empty depends which direction it's going.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:23 pm

So is Alan crazy or am I (or you)? Who is mixed up?
Well, there appear to be objects, plants, animals and people outside of me.

I don't see why I should think that they don't exist or that they don't effect on me in ways which are beyond my control.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Fanman » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:55 pm

Serendipper,

What is quality of life? What is functionality? What is the point to life?


:-k ... Keeping the glass half full.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:05 pm

What is quality of life? What is functionality? What is the point to life?
That's a personal evaluation.

If someone is saying "my life sucks", then he/she ought to do something to change it. And obviously he/she has some idea of what is wrong with that life and what would improve it. In most cases, some improvement is possible - maybe a big improvement is possible.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:07 pm

phyllo wrote:
So is Alan crazy or am I (or you)? Who is mixed up?
Well, there appear to be objects, plants, animals and people outside of me.

I don't see why I should think that they don't exist or that they don't effect on me in ways which are beyond my control.

Yes but I realized one day that we can't have 1 apple without the entire universe. An apple needs a tree that needs the ground and air which needs a planet which needs a star which needs a universe. A blackhole on the other end of the universe is just as necessary for you to be here as your own heart, and as Alan puts it, the same way you work your thyroid gland is the same way you shine the sun. Or we could say that whatever natural processes that cause your thyroid gland to function are of the same origin as those that shine the sun.

So what is the difference between "you" and "it"? He says this is why meditators focus on breathing because breathing is both something you do and something that happens to you and the purpose is to realize that there is no difference because whatever you do IS something that happens to you and the corollary is whatever that happens to you IS something you do.

Here's a 6 min video about it:

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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:22 pm

Whatever. If it makes him happy ...

8-)
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:26 pm

phyllo wrote:
What is quality of life? What is functionality? What is the point to life?
That's a personal evaluation.

If someone is saying "my life sucks", then he/she ought to do something to change it. And obviously he/she has some idea of what is wrong with that life and what would improve it. In most cases, some improvement is possible - maybe a big improvement is possible.

I did get some good advice from dad once. He said "You expect too much". Perhaps I am too idealistic in thinking we could have one year of "normal weather" by random chance instead on once-in-a-century droughts in the summer along with floods in the winter year after year. Why can't it rain in the summer instead of the winter just by random fluke, just once??? But I expect too much and should feel astonished that we exist at all considering what a rough place the universe is. Yes, he's right, I'm being arrogant and feeling entitled to good weather as if the universe owes me something.

Life "sucking" is a matter of perspective and expectation. If I'm not king of the world, then life just sucks.

Fanman wrote:Serendipper,

What is quality of life? What is functionality? What is the point to life?


:-k ... Keeping the glass half full.

I was originally going to put your post in order at the top, but decided to cut n paste it at the end as a summation because, yes, that's it and there's a lot of profundity in analogizing the glass being half full (realistic expectations, not being greedy, counting blessings, the Middle Way of Buddhism)
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:28 pm

phyllo wrote:Whatever. If it makes him happy ...

8-)

So you're confident that he is looney?
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:41 pm

So you're confident that he is looney?
It really makes no difference to me.

The explanation in the video is a way of looking at things ... it's not the only way and not necessarily the right/wrong way.

I don't see it as particularly convincing. I don't see it as useful.
Last edited by phyllo on Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:50 pm

Life "sucking" is a matter of perspective and expectation.
Sure, but perspective and expectations are within your control.

If I'm not king of the world, then life just sucks.
If you have to be "king of the world" for life not to suck, then you're going to be unhappy your entire life unless you manage to become "king of the world".

If you change your expectations, then life stops sucking.

It's your choice.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Fanman » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:59 pm

Serendipper,

I was originally going to put your post in order at the top, but decided to cut n paste it at the end as a summation because, yes, that's it and there's a lot of profundity in analogizing the glass being half full (realistic expectations, not being greedy, counting blessings, the Middle Way of Buddhism)


Good summation.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:14 pm

Fanman wrote:Serendipper,

I was originally going to put your post in order at the top, but decided to cut n paste it at the end as a summation because, yes, that's it and there's a lot of profundity in analogizing the glass being half full (realistic expectations, not being greedy, counting blessings, the Middle Way of Buddhism)


Good summation.


Fanman, why not branch out and comment on more threads?
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:16 pm

phyllo wrote:
So you're confident that he is looney?
It really makes no difference to me.

The explanation in the video is a way of looking at things ... it's not the only way and not necessarily the right/wrong way.

I don't see it as particularly convincing. I don't see it as useful.

Yes, he says there is the scientific and the poetic explanation and which you choose depends how you're wired.

But why does it make no difference to you? Don't you want to know who, where, and what you are? Isn't that the first order of business in life?
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby Serendipper » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:19 pm

phyllo wrote:
Life "sucking" is a matter of perspective and expectation.
Sure, but perspective and expectations are within your control.

If I'm not king of the world, then life just sucks.
If you have to be "king of the world" for life not to suck, then you're going to be unhappy your entire life unless you manage to become "king of the world".

If you change your expectations, then life stops sucking.

It's your choice.

What's all this talk about choice and control? If I prefer vanilla over chocolate, isn't it because of how I'm put together? I had no choice in that. The words I choose to type next is just a function of my genetics and my environment and those are two things I have no control over. How do you have control and I don't?
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:26 pm

Yes, he says there is the scientific and the poetic explanation and which you choose depends how you're wired.
There is some truth in that but I don't think that "your wiring" can't be "rewired". IOW, I'm not a fatalist.
But why does it make no difference to you?
It's not up to me decide what other people ought to think. If he wants to think in some particular way, that's his choice.
Don't you want to know who, where, and what you are?
I already know. To be more exact, I believe that I have a reasonable explanation. When I hear other explanations, I evaluate them and readjust as necessary.
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Re: Researchers Discover 'Anxiety Cells' In The Brain

Postby phyllo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:39 pm

What's all this talk about choice and control? If I prefer vanilla over chocolate, isn't it because of how I'm put together? I had no choice in that. The words I choose to type next is just a function of my genetics and my environment and those are two things I have no control over.
That's loud and clear in your posts.
How do you have control and I don't?
I guess that if you think that you don't have control then you don't have it.
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