Is God competent or incompetent?

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:27 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Apparently sin is part of perfection.
Perhaps because perfection is not found in meekness and obedience but in making things right.


Yet Christianity demand obedience and Islam demands submission.

It seems that they do not agree with you.

Actually they do.
Redemption is big in both religions, as is ferocious fighting to the death.
But even if they would not agree, why is that important enough to mention to me?
Does that make me wrong?
Are they god?
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:32 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:I'd say God's logic goes: hell exists for people that deserve it.
It would be imperfect to not be able to discipline sinners.


Yet it is the same discipline for all offences, be they small or large.

I dont know what religion you refer to but thats certainly not Christianity or Islam.
Both have a whole hierarchy of differentiated sin.

Only those who do not care about injustice or their corrupted morals will praise God for him immorality.

Regards
DL

Aww.

You know what? God doesn't exist.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:37 pm

newegg wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Apparently sin is part of perfection.
Perhaps because perfection is not found in meekness and obedience but in making things right.

You need things to be wrong for that.


human beings dont jack off to gay porn first. they jack off to lesbian porn first, and slowly as they lose faith in the female purity they migrate to gay porn.

Who the hell watches porn for its purity?

I don't agree with the rest either, but those are all non-issues. Prostitution and purity together is an interesting concept.

There is much to be said for what I think Duterte said, that a prostitute is better than a politician, as she will get to work when she gets paid, and a politician certainly will not. The average prostitute has merit, the average politician or the average banker certainly has not, and they gobble up a lot more money.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:59 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Greatest I Am,

You asked "How long has Christianity flourished?"

From the day they used Inquisitions and murder to put their religion at the top of the garbage heap.

You seem to think Christianity should be praised for murder.


What is it that you believe in? What religion, what organization? Are there any terrible abuses which have been committed by people seeking terrible power and control there, people wanting to do things their own way, according to their own belief systems?

What you described is not the Christianity which Christ supposedly founded. There are good and evil people everywhere.
There is good within Christianity and then again there are those rotten apples.
Even good thing can become corrupted.


As to God having to base Christianity on barbaric human sacrifice, like he had no moral ways to do it.


This was not God. Again, it was the people according to their culture and their beliefs. These things happened long before Christianity came into existence. See, this the problem with religion and belief systems. We tend to create a God into our own image and likeness. Aside from that, perhaps we are just too fearful to recognize what we human beings are capable of doing to one another and so we blame God instead of blaming a warped psyche like those who are sadistic and enjoy inflicting hurt and blame on others because we cannot understand.

Only the foolish will think they can speak for the thinking in the supernatural world.


Personally, I am agnostic and I do not see things the way in which you or others see them.
How much real thinking actually goes on in the supernatural world, I wonder.

I will let you do so. Do not expect respect for that though.


The word respect means to *go back and take another look*. We all need to do this often especially when our thinking does not meet up with our feelings and what we seem to see.


Sure, there are good people in all evil organizations.

The S. S. and KKK had good people in them, even though good people would not call themselves S.S. or KKK.

"What is it that you believe in? What religion, what organization?

I am a Gnostic Christian. I follow their ideology of freedom of thought and being an esoteric ecumenist.

We do not believe in the idol worship of even a real God should one pop up some time.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:08 pm

esoteric
ˌɛsəˈtɛrɪk,ˌiːsəˈtɛrɪk/Skicka
adjective
intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

ecumenical
[ek-yoo-men-i-kuh l or, esp. British, ee-kyoo-]
ExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective
general; universal.
pertaining to the whole Christian church.
promoting or fostering Christian unity throughout the world.


Could you help me put those terms together so that they do not produce and oxymoron. Also how you see you approach unifying Christian churches or all religions. Perhaps you use the words differently, let us know.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:38 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
esoteric
ˌɛsəˈtɛrɪk,ˌiːsəˈtɛrɪk/Skicka
adjective
intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

ecumenical
[ek-yoo-men-i-kuh l or, esp. British, ee-kyoo-]
ExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective
general; universal.
pertaining to the whole Christian church.
promoting or fostering Christian unity throughout the world.


Could you help me put those terms together so that they do not produce and oxymoron. Also how you see you approach unifying Christian churches or all religions. Perhaps you use the words differently, let us know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZJys45MLWI

The only Christian church of any kind that is flexible enough in it's thinking to absorb most if not all Christian sects is Gnostic Christianity.

You have to begin with Universalism or you automatically exclude most Christian sects.

Those who love hell and love to hate will not apply.

Literalists of course are already lost to intelligent thinking.

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:09 pm

Greatest I am wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZJys45MLWI

The only Christian church of any kind that is flexible enough in it's thinking to absorb most if not all Christian sects is Gnostic Christianity.

You have to begin with Universalism or you automatically exclude most Christian sects.

Those who love hell and love to hate will not apply.

Literalists of course are already lost to intelligent thinking.

Regards
DL
Could you refer to the meaning of the words, relating the concepts to make an intelligible whole. Esoteric and ecumenist. How do these go together. How does and ecumenist unify churches he or she considers evil? How does saying this unify them? How does comparing the churches to the SS and the KKK unify them? How does something that claims to be understood by only a few unify all churches? And so on.
s
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:27 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZJys45MLWI

The only Christian church of any kind that is flexible enough in it's thinking to absorb most if not all Christian sects is Gnostic Christianity.

You have to begin with Universalism or you automatically exclude most Christian sects.

Those who love hell and love to hate will not apply.

Literalists of course are already lost to intelligent thinking.

Regards
DL
Could you refer to the meaning of the words, relating the concepts to make an intelligible whole. Esoteric and ecumenist. How do these go together. How does and ecumenist unify churches he or she considers evil? How does saying this unify them? How does comparing the churches to the SS and the KKK unify them? How does something that claims to be understood by only a few unify all churches? And so on.
s


It would not exactly unify them. It would absorb them and have the old religion vanish. The new adherents would be reborn to a better way of thinking. When a Muslim, for instance, becomes a Christian, he calls himself a Christian and not a Muslim Christian.

On esoteric, you can use the link I put.

On ecumenism. You have to recall that in the past as well as today, all religions basically hate each other even if they have nearly the same core beliefs.

Gnostic Christianity would have them ignore the small differences and accept each others better parts. Like the equality od all including gays and females who are presently discriminated against without a just cause thanks to most religions preacher homophobia and misogyny.

Regards
DL
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:41 pm

Greatest I am

"What is it that you believe in? What religion, what organization?


I do not belong to any organized religion now. I believe in/intuit the High Order of Nature. lol Really.
If ILP can be called an organizationwhich I believe it can be, sometimes I believe in ILP and sometimes I lose my faith in it, which can be a good thing. Ultimately, we also need to learn to stand alone. There was a time when I looked on life with rose-colored glasses.


I am a Gnostic Christian. I follow their ideology of freedom of thought and being an esoteric ecumenist.


But the *Christian* part of that does not really follow freedom of thought ~~ is not allowed to embrace that ~~ now, does it?


For instance, can you give me an example of your *freedom of thought*? Do you believe that your freedom of thought leads you to have unbiased perspectives or are they also part of your freedom of thought?

We do not believe in the idol worship of even a real God should one pop up some time.


How would you even know if one were to pop up some time as you say? How could we even distinguish this real God from those who have been popping up down the ages?

Also, I think that Karpal Tunnel made a good point below:

How does something that claims to be understood by only a few unify all churches?


How does something which necessarily excludes unify?
What are the criteria by which someone is allowed to become an esoteric ecumenist and welcomed into that religious organization?
How do you recognize one another?

Regards to you too.
Joseph Joubert ~~

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.


The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


“We love repose of mind so well, that we are arrested by anything which has even the appearance of truth; and so we fall asleep on clouds.”


You have to be like the pebble in the stream, keeping the grain and rolling along without being dissolved or dissolving anything else.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:16 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Greatest I am

"What is it that you believe in? What religion, what organization?


I do not belong to any organized religion now. I believe in/intuit the High Order of Nature. lol Really.
If ILP can be called an organizationwhich I believe it can be, sometimes I believe in ILP and sometimes I lose my faith in it, which can be a good thing. Ultimately, we also need to learn to stand alone. There was a time when I looked on life with rose-colored glasses.


Alone is good. We are all in this together, alone.

Nature is a great guide.
You, as a part of nature should guide yourself. That is what Gnosis teaches us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QI3nlinYQ
I am a Gnostic Christian. I follow their ideology of freedom of thought and being an esoteric ecumenist.


But the *Christian* part of that does not really follow freedom of thought ~~ is not allowed to embrace that ~~ now, does it?


That would depend on how you read scriptures.

Does this quote not tell you to use your freedom of thought?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Who is the master of your thinking if you are the one testing concepts?

I cannot prove it but think that early Gnostic Christians created the Chrestian religion which was usurped and taken over by Christianity. That may be why the early Gnostics called themselves Christian. In fact, the only good Christians.

You also should know that the bible is a consolidation of many older religious thinking and traditions and Chrestianity came out of it by cherry picking what the archetypal Jesus mystic said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ptNcSYo7k4

For instance, can you give me an example of your *freedom of thought*? Do you believe that your freedom of thought leads you to have unbiased perspectives or are they also part of your freedom of thought?


An example of our freedom of thought is looking at Yahweh, a God to Christians, by faith and fear, and allowing our morals to judge him as a vile demiurge. We see him as a genocidal son murdering prick and are free enough in our thinking to express that truth even if it insults shoes who worship the genocidal prick.

We do not believe in the idol worship of even a real God should one pop up some time.


How would you even know if one were to pop up some time as you say? How could we even distinguish this real God from those who have been popping up down the ages?


I know of no God who has popped up. If one had, we would have some sign of it. Further, if we ever do have a God who pops up, we then would have to choose to either be slaves to it or free of it. Gnostic Christians follow the Buddhist saying that if you see God, kill him.

Also, I think that Karpal Tunnel made a good point below:

How does something that claims to be understood by only a few unify all churches?


All religions say that only a few are enlightened. That may be why Jesus said to seek God. We read that as seek God perpetually and if you think you are getting close you are to raise the bar of excellence and seek anew.

Again, if we find God, we are to kill him, and seek anew. God here being defined as the best rules and laws to live life by. To define God as anything else is idol worship and we can see from history, Inquisitions and Jihads, how harmful being an idol worshiper is.

How does something which necessarily excludes unify?


You say excludes. I say recognize the uniqueness of all individuals and the potential for greatness in all of us.

If we all see that way, then you will see why I say that we are all in this together, alone.

What are the criteria by which someone is allowed to become an esoteric ecumenist and welcomed into that religious organization?
How do you recognize one another?

Regards to you too.
[/quote

An esoteric ecumenist is not someone who is allowed to be one. It is a position that a free thinking mind takes, so the criteria is ones own desire. If you think you must be allowed by someone, then you are not ready to be an esoteric ecumenist as you are not a free thinker and rely on another to tell you how to think.

We tend to recognize each other the same way atheists, agnostics and believers do. We note the shared thinking patterns and willingness to call evil evil and good good as compared to most in the God religions, Christians and Muslims, who call evil good.

Note that Christians see their genocidal son murdering God as good yet run away from trying to justify his evil action.

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Greatest I am wrote:It would not exactly unify them. It would absorb them and have the old religion vanish. The new adherents would be reborn to a better way of thinking. When a Muslim, for instance, becomes a Christian, he calls himself a Christian and not a Muslim Christian.

On esoteric, you can use the link I put.

On ecumenism. You have to recall that in the past as well as today, all religions basically hate each other even if they have nearly the same core beliefs.

Gnostic Christianity would have them ignore the small differences and accept each others better parts. Like the equality od all including gays and females who are presently discriminated against without a just cause thanks to most religions preacher homophobia and misogyny.

Yes, this doesn't answers the questions I asked, especially concerned how those two words work together, in your own words, given for example the definitions I posted. Perhaps you have different definitions. If you, please write them here. And I still cannot see how referring to the various churches like that could lead to unity of churches or leave many people in those churches open to considering your ideas. Perhaps at a later point could you make such comparisons, but does it really strike you as an good early step in unifying Christianity?
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:44 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:It would not exactly unify them. It would absorb them and have the old religion vanish. The new adherents would be reborn to a better way of thinking. When a Muslim, for instance, becomes a Christian, he calls himself a Christian and not a Muslim Christian.

On esoteric, you can use the link I put.

On ecumenism. You have to recall that in the past as well as today, all religions basically hate each other even if they have nearly the same core beliefs.

Gnostic Christianity would have them ignore the small differences and accept each others better parts. Like the equality od all including gays and females who are presently discriminated against without a just cause thanks to most religions preacher homophobia and misogyny.

Yes, this doesn't answers the questions I asked, especially concerned how those two words work together, in your own words, given for example the definitions I posted. Perhaps you have different definitions. If you, please write them here. And I still cannot see how referring to the various churches like that could lead to unity of churches or leave many people in those churches open to considering your ideas. Perhaps at a later point could you make such comparisons, but does it really strike you as an good early step in unifying Christianity?


I apologise. I cannot do better than this professor in explaining esoteric ecumenist.

Perhaps if you tell me what part of his explanation you do not understand. I also put the Wiki definition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZJys45MLWI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_esotericism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecumenism

As you can see, the definitions tend to go in a number of directions and being French, I am likely not the best source for an English definition. That is also why I tend not to get too lost in semantics.

Think in terms of a secular law maker in any country. He would take the best law, regardless of it's source, and implement it within his countries ideally. That is what Gnostic Christianity is all about and why we are perpetual seekers.

To be satisfied with any God or moral system, to us, is idol worship of that God or system. To idol worship means that the God or system will be prevented from evolving.

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