Forever

Have you ever entertained that perhaps death is simply a finality.

I wonder. Without the promise of life everlasting how many people would embrace Christianity, how many Muslims would believe without the promise of this present life being only a preparation for the next realm of existence, both Hinduism and Buddhism strongly believe in the rebirth and reincarnation of souls, none teach that death is final.

What happens after death is an ever deepening descent into illusion and obscuration, people grasping with their last intellectual breath, not an end but a continuation.

A Shieldmaiden

How did you manage to come to believe in the scriptures being that you grew up in an atheistic environment?

According to YOUR interpretation of the scriptures, does your God give you the freedom/free will to think for yourself and to desire what you want? If so, I do not see you having a problem there as long as you are grateful for the life you have. Even there, a God of compassion and mercy would have understanding of the human psyche.

According to the scriptures, the Old Testament God also had mercy and compassion. Therefore, wouldn’t your God understand your desire to not want to live forever?
At any rate, this is something which is out of our hand - either way.
There is either life after death or there is not. If there is not, what is there to worry about. After that final breath, there will be no experience whatsoever. There is no way to prove so - either way. All that can be said about it is based on belief, not reality.

True, it would be up to the individual’s life experience to see and to feel that. I can perfectly understand an individual’s desire in either direction.
We cannot live within another’s skin so we cannot know why. But we have the freedom to choose what we would want.

Arcturus Descending wrote:

I have no answer for that, only to recognise that it was something within me beyond my own conscious decision or understanding. I have had exposure through friends to Buddhism, the Koran, Hinduism none of which have had any impact or conviction for me.

There are arguments for and against what you have said regarding freedom to choose. In my case, I can only act with freedom to choose if I was the original source for my actions and being in the beginning so young I think this was way too sophisticated for a small child to totally comprehend. One could say if determinism is true, then everything I did as a small child was ultimately caused by circumstances out of my control and if this was so then I was not the instigator of my actions, therefore I did not or do not have free will in this instance.

The problem of free will and sin gives rise to the question why does God not will that all come to believe, when His having such a will is sufficient for everyone’s salvation?

Because they fear regretting not living the life that they felt they should have lived in one way or another. Maybe they wanted to see more or do more, maybe they wanted different relationships, maybe they felt like they were a bad person and wanted to be good, maybe they felt like they were too good and wanted to feel what it was like to be bad a little. At the end of the day, everything dies and nothing changes that. I don’t think that life is so special that it magically carries on ones all the neurons stop firing. But you’re right. Having a desire that goes against the inevitable can only cause dissonance. Might as well accept death, taxes, and the rest of the things that no one can avoid and make the most of it while you can get away with it.

That is the best theological argument against Heaven Ive ever seen.
A very honourable question.

As a resolution, you may be interested in the Odinic concept “Orlog”.
We hold that we are connected at least 8 generations back to our ancestors spirits, and that these spirits fight in us for predominance.

There is no “everlasting peace” but there is an extended struggle.

This is a sweeping statement. Too seeping.

Long ago i read about children that remembered their passed lives and then the study went on to check that the passed lives were actual.
They would, for example, remember names of their passed parents, brothers and sisters.

I tend to lean to agreement.
Also it is more logical to me if valuing-integrity, which is (come on now!) the soul (love-integrity) which upholds the “narrative” (morals, purpose, life-“path”, meaning) which in my ontology is the precursor to matter, which is energy, is also maintained as in conservation of integrity.

Both integrity and energy are being conserved, but on different shelves.

integrity is conserved by the energy expended on it (“men must fight!” - me to a lesbian) and energy is conserved around the axis of integrity.

I think “heaven” and “hell” are for people who are new to the sentiment of self-reverence, and need to be made aware of the existence of standards, which is then simplified in “evil” and “good”. A distinction which activates moral awareness in merely degenerated apes (normal humans) so as to set them possibly on the path of a better set of distinct qualities, further along the road to “superman”, i.e. animal: man. The man who has become fully entrusted to his own mind, so as to become an animal species and roam on earth and be happy.

Even if there was another chance at life there would still be regret because mistakes would still be made
They would not be the same mistakes that had already been made just different ones but still mistakes
No matter how many lives a human being lived they would never get it perfect so best just to have one
I am not sure I would want to live my life again even if it were possible and I think I would prefer death

Fixed, everybody believes something. Even what appears to be a rejection of all beliefs is a kind of belief. A person is not free if he rejects Christianity, because he still maintains the concept of faith which you have demonstrated in your response above by transferring your faith to something or someone else. Read the comments on Know Thyself Forum regarding Christianity and their proud assertions of being Pagan, which only demonstrates a transference of faith, no different really to the Christian fervently proclaiming his beliefs. There is nowhere someone can stand where he or she has no beliefs, otherwise we would all be robots. The dilemma here is what and why we choose to embrace and believe, whether it be paganism, christianity, astrology, etc or none of these.

Ideals are a projection of what we are.
I was inviting you into a loftier world of being, knowing that you would spit on te gift.

My incurable ideals for humans show you what I am.

I do not believe anything because belief is a faith position which requires no evidence. There are things I think are true but thinking and believing are not the
same. I have no time for belief. I do not define knowledge as justified true belief either because knowledge and belief have got nothing to do with each other

Fixed wrote:

Whoa…give me some time to read and digest I am new on this subject Orlog, as for spitting on it that is not the case. What occurred to me was the curious similarity in some parts between Judaism and Orlog. Can I ask a question of you no need to answer if you consider it too personal. Have you abandoned Judaism entirely in favour of Orlog and if so what are your reasons you chose to do so?

surreptitious75 wrote:

SM wrote:

Fovever is a feeling.

Life is a void without feelings which feelings fill which probably leads to that forever.

Yes, and I also feel that forever comes from that feeling, before it leads back to it. I’ve heard it’s always present and that we can gain access to it now.

“Love” and “forever” are two of the most abused and meaningless words in the English language.

Since forever has no boundries, words with definitions don’t apply unless forever is looked at like an “outsider”. Outside the moment. This is where the past and future step in. I forever philosophy?