End of the World

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Re: End of the World

Postby Zero_Sum » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:40 pm

Ierrellus wrote:A recent t.v. program showed a mile long patch of plastic debris floating in the Pacific Ocean.
There are over 7 billion people living on a globe that has limited natural resources.
"This is the way the world ends==
Not with a bang, but a whimper." --T. S. Eliot
How do you think the world will end? Or d0 you see the concern as just some religious or political propaganda?
Will science save us from ourselves? Can religion?

World War III, socio-economic collapse, and the desperate attempt at trying to preserve modern technological infrastructure at great costs to the natural environment.

Will religion or science save us? No, they're both the biggest problem and orchestrator of all this. World would be better off without each.
The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

-Thomas Hobbes-
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Re: End of the World

Postby Zero_Sum » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:45 pm

Arminius wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:End of the World.

A recent t.v. program showed a mile long patch of plastic debris floating in the Pacific Ocean.
There are over 7 billion people living on a globe that has limited natural resources.
"This is the way the world ends==
Not with a bang, but a whimper." --T. S. Eliot
How do you think the world will end? Or d0 you see the concern as just some religious or political propaganda?
Will science save us from ourselves? Can religion?

The ecological catastrophe is merely one of some more options for the end of humans and many other living creatures.
Other options are, for instance, military catastrophes, technical/scientifical research catastrophes, natural catastrophes.

But all these catastophes will not mean the "end of the world" and not mean the end of this planet either; but they will just mean huge catastrophes for humans and many other living creatures.


There is no total end of the world until things reach nuclear to any great extent.
The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

-Thomas Hobbes-
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Re: End of the World

Postby Zero_Sum » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:47 pm

Meno_ wrote:Technology may yet overcome the nihilistic and apocaliptic doom day. Even Sofia said she wants family and feelings.
It can go either way for Mankind, the world, our universe, if we recognise what the end really is, not only a cliche abused mantra-the beginning , but the eternity which can be here in people's hearts, mind and soul-or can be.

This choice between universal and singular manifestations of all the dualities, despite their appearance of transcendence, is basically an imminence of astounding magnificence, acting in concordance. The final battle may be fought with a sigh, rather then the usual orgy of bloodletting.

The ocean reverberates the message of the pounding surf, the incessant tides and the eternally bubbly foam.


That's funny considering technological innovation is ultimately itself nihilistic.
The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

-Thomas Hobbes-
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Re: End of the World

Postby Meno_ » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:51 pm

The ultimate wit of the universe is IT' s saving grace.
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Re: End of the World

Postby Zero_Sum » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:54 pm

Meno_ wrote:The ultimate wit of the universe is IT' s saving grace.


The universe or cosmos is a big place and human beings are rather unimportant.
The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

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Re: End of the World

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:58 pm

Ierrellus wrote:The veil? Is this something like Plato's parable of the cave dwellers or like Paul's recognition that "we see through a glass darkly"? Those who are awake to changes seem to agree that we exist in an age of transition, but do not clearly note from what to what. How do you see this age?


Ierrellus ... naming conventions create mental blocks and/or myopia.

Nested in the frame of my above comment I would say ... "Another Age of Transition"
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Re: End of the World

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:44 pm

Mach,
The universe has allowed the creation of beings that can opine on the nature of the universe--a mirror glimpse maybe. But that creation is a big deal.
As of yet, we have not fully explored the possibility that genetic determinism, which produces all organisms, can explain for us the characteristics of our minds. There may be hope for us yet.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: End of the World

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:52 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:The veil? Is this something like Plato's parable of the cave dwellers or like Paul's recognition that "we see through a glass darkly"? Those who are awake to changes seem to agree that we exist in an age of transition, but do not clearly note from what to what. How do you see this age?


Ierrellus ... naming conventions create mental blocks and/or myopia.

Nested in the frame of my above comment I would say ... "Another Age of Transition"

There seems to be a move toward mindfulness in the Western world. PBS ran a special on how this type of here and now awareness meditation is being used even by the police to combat the mental clutter that plagues us all. Maybe it is time for another infusion of Eastern wisdom into Western mentality.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: End of the World

Postby Zero_Sum » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:51 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Mach,
The universe has allowed the creation of beings that can opine on the nature of the universe--a mirror glimpse maybe. But that creation is a big deal.
As of yet, we have not fully explored the possibility that genetic determinism, which produces all organisms, can explain for us the characteristics of our minds. There may be hope for us yet.


A species that keeps on being unable to understand each other will never have the ability to understand something as complicated as the rest of the cosmos.
The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

-Thomas Hobbes-
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Re: End of the World

Postby Meno_ » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:09 pm

And yet there is something about mirroring . reflection . which overcomes lack of understsnding
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Re: End of the World

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:55 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:The veil? Is this something like Plato's parable of the cave dwellers or like Paul's recognition that "we see through a glass darkly"? Those who are awake to changes seem to agree that we exist in an age of transition, but do not clearly note from what to what. How do you see this age?


Ierrellus ... naming conventions create mental blocks and/or myopia.

Nested in the frame of my above comment I would say ... "Another Age of Transition"

There seems to be a move toward mindfulness in the Western world. PBS ran a special on how this type of here and now awareness meditation is being used even by the police to combat the mental clutter that plagues us all. Maybe it is time for another infusion of Eastern wisdom into Western mentality.


Ierrellus ... bidirectional infusions have been in high gear for the past century ... the momentum seems to be accelerating.

Ego is the constraining factor ... the "not invented here syndrome" and the "my dick is bigger than yours syndrome".

The universe/cosmos marches forward despite human ego.

Gnostic Gospel of Thomas ... the word "gospel" as in "good news" ... number 70

"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: End of the World

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:19 am

Meno_ wrote:And yet there is something about mirroring . reflection . which overcomes lack of understsnding

Such as what exactly?
The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

-Thomas Hobbes-
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Re: End of the World

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:21 am

The end of the world won't happen, Jesus will hop on down from the sky riding on a flying dinosaur where the rapture will save everybody. Don't you see, there is nothing to fear after all.
The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

-Thomas Hobbes-
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Re: End of the World

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:00 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:The end of the world won't happen, Jesus will hop on down from the sky riding on a flying dinosaur where the rapture will save everybody. Don't you see, there is nothing to fear after all.

Your sarcasm is based on a severely limited view of who or what Jesus is.
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Re: End of the World

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:06 pm

Tom,
I've enjoyed reading The Book of Thomas. Your quote is especially pertinent to our discussion. The source of our redemption is inside.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: End of the World

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:08 pm

Meno_ wrote:And yet there is something about mirroring . reflection . which overcomes lack of understsnding

Absolutely!
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: End of the World

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:52 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Tom,
I've enjoyed reading The Book of Thomas. Your quote is especially pertinent to our discussion. The source of our redemption is inside.


... and it seems patience while holding on to tensions is the most significant challenge.

Just read this article ... Ron articulates the above comment ...
Scripture and Christian tradition emphasize that Jesus could only be born out of a chaste womb, just as Christian Spirituality emphasizes he can only come to full bloom inside of a chaste heart. Why? Why this emphasis on chastity?

Chastity needs to be properly understood. For too long we have had an overly-narrow and mostly false concept of chastity. Chastity is too commonly identified with sexual abstinence and sexuality is then seen as something that, in itself, militates against chastity and spirituality. But chastity is not the same thing as celibacy; indeed it is not even, first and foremost, a sexual concept. Someone can be chaste but not celibate, just as someone can be celibate but not chaste. My parents were not celibate, they gave birth to a large family, but they were wonderfully chaste persons. The reverse can also be true. Someone can be celibate but far from chaste.

What is chastity? We are chaste when we stand before the world, others, and God in a way which allows them to be fully themselves without letting our own impatience, selfishness, or unwillingness to remain in tension violate their reality and their natural unfolding. What is meant by that?

Allow me to present three images for this:

• In her book, Holy The Firm, Annie Dillard shares this story: One evening, alone in her cabin, she was watching a moth slowly emerge from its cocoon. The process was fascinating but interminably slow. At a point she lost patience and needed to get on to other things, so she picked up a candle and applied a little heat to the process. It worked. The added heat sped up the process and the moth emerged more quickly from its cocoon, but, since a natural process had been interfered with and unnaturally rushed, the moth emerged with ill-formed wings which didn’t allow it to fly properly. A fault in chastity led to stunted growth.

• The movie, Sense and Sensibility, based on Jane Austen’s classic novel, presents its leading character, a woman played by Emma Thompson, as someone who is asked to carry an extremely painful tension for a long time, one having to do with unrequited and unconsummated love. She has no one with whom she can really share her pain and her circumstance requires her to carry on as if she was not carrying this pain. She carries that tension for a long time, sublimating her pain into a graciousness that she extends even to the very persons who are the source of her tension. Only after a long time is the tension is finally resolved and her forbearance in not forcing an earlier, premature resolution, her willingness to carry the tension to term, helps bring about deeper life for everyone, not least for herself. This is the essence of chastity.

• After the Italian, spiritual writer, Carlo Carretto, had spend a number of years living as a hermit in the Sahara desert, he was asked what message he would give to the world if someone asked him the question: What, in your solitude and prayer, do you hear God saying to those of us who are living active lives in the world? Carretto replied: God is saying: learn to wait, learn to wait for everything – for love, for fulfillment, for consummation, for God! Learning to wait, giving God and life the space to unfold as they need to, is the very essence of chastity.

In a number of his books, Nikos Kazantzakis, both fondly and bitterly, makes this assertion: God, it seems, is never in a hurry, while we are always in a hurry. He’s right: Life unfolds according to its own innate rhythms which try our patience and it will not let themselves be rushed, except at a cost. Life and love demand both the time and the space within which to unfold according to their own internal dictates. Whenever, because of impatience, selfishness, or our unwillingness to stay inside a tension, we short-circuit that process we, in slight or deep ways, violate their reality.

Chastity is the virtue that invites us to live in patience, to wait, to respect what’s other, and to carry tension long enough so that the other can truly be other and gift can unfold precisely as gift.

The word sublime takes its root in the word sublimation. Nothing can be sublime unless there is first sublimation. Nobody gives birth to a baby without a long period of gestation, nobody writes a doctoral thesis in two hours, nobody creates an artistic masterpiece without long hours of sweat and labor, and nobody becomes a heroic individual without carrying unbearable tension. Cinderella only got to go to the ball after she had spent sufficient time in the ashes. Jesus only got to the glory and freedom of Easter Sunday by first sweating blood in the garden.

That is why the Messiah can only be born from a chaste womb and come to life fully only inside of a chaste heart. Christmas allows for no shortcuts.
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Re: End of the World

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:57 am

Ierrellus wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:The end of the world won't happen, Jesus will hop on down from the sky riding on a flying dinosaur where the rapture will save everybody. Don't you see, there is nothing to fear after all.

Your sarcasm is based on a severely limited view of who or what Jesus is.


I know that religious passivity in waiting for some fictional eternal heaven after death does nothing in changing or altering the world now in our present. People in power love the religious passive meek because they easily rollover on command in prayer.

Turning the other cheek and begging like slaves in passivity the perverse religious form of apathy, inaction, or indifference it is no wonder why those in power make sure there is a church on every street corner.

The world cries out for revolution but the religious fold their arms in passive inaction looking towards the sky pronouncing that God will one day return saving them where there is no reason to do anything whatsoever. I know this has always been a slavish mentality I could never embrace.
The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.

I put for the general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death.

-Thomas Hobbes-
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Re: End of the World

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:42 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:The end of the world won't happen, Jesus will hop on down from the sky riding on a flying dinosaur where the rapture will save everybody. Don't you see, there is nothing to fear after all.

Your sarcasm is based on a severely limited view of who or what Jesus is.


I know that religious passivity in waiting for some fictional eternal heaven after death does nothing in changing or altering the world now in our present. People in power love the religious passive meek because they easily rollover on command in prayer.

Turning the other cheek and begging like slaves in passivity the perverse religious form of apathy, inaction, or indifference it is no wonder why those in power make sure there is a church on every street corner.

The world cries out for revolution but the religious fold their arms in passive inaction looking towards the sky pronouncing that God will one day return saving them where there is no reason to do anything whatsoever. I know this has always been a slavish mentality I could never embrace.


ZS ... you're a real charmer ... at least for those who understand your posts. :)

ZS and Ierrellus

Just heard and later read another saying from the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas ... number 113.

Seems to dovetail nicely with ZS's post here as well as some thoughts I shared in another OP today:

His disciples said to him, "When is the kingdom going to come?" <Jesus said>, "It is not by being waited for that it is going to come. They are not going to say, 'Here it is' or 'There it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out over the earth, and people do not see it."


thoughts expressed in another OP

Generally speaking ... across time and space ... all people ... being incapable of understanding the complexities of the world they live(d) in espouse(d) absurdities. Of course, JSS being an exception. :D

The ignorance mentioned above is in large part a consequence of the brevity of the human life span.

Nonetheless, peoples across time and space demanded ... craved ... answers. Thus the emergence of myths, legends, religions and so on.

The world today conforms to this timeless pattern.

For example, attributing success or failure ... the good ... the bad ... and the ugly ... to one individual or at most to a couple of individuals persists.
Tolstoy illustrated this phenomenon eloquently in the latter part of his book "War and Peace" using the example of Bonaparte. He argued that attributing success or failure to the breath (logos, anima, soul, qi) of one individual is naive ... being the consequence of a general ignorance of the immense mosaic of complexities in play at all times and places.


What is attributed to the historical Jesus may or may not be true ... the fact that "something" was in the air 2,000 years ago and this same "something" remains in the air today is undeniably true.

Of course ... ZS will say this "something" is known to all as pollution. :D
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Re: End of the World

Postby Arminius » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:56 pm

Ierrellus wrote:Mach,
The universe has allowed the creation of beings that can opine on the nature of the universe--a mirror glimpse maybe. But that creation is a big deal.
As of yet, we have not fully explored the possibility that genetic determinism, which produces all organisms, can explain for us the characteristics of our minds. There may be hope for us yet.

1) Do you consider two or more different realms (for example the physical as the first realm, the chemical as the second realm, the biological as the third realm ... and so on)?
1a) If yes: Are this realms like the Leibnizian monads?
1b) If not: Does "genetic determinism" really produce "all organisms", as you said, or is the genetic determinism itself also (just like all organisms are) a product of the physico-chemical nature?

To me, genetics is something between the chemical realm and the biological realm.

Arminius wrote:The theory is based on analogies. For example: Sun and technique (technology), planets and cultures, moons and economies, other bodies and art. The pre-condition I made is that the problem of the "dualism" between nature and culture can be overcome by analogies. In addition to the great "dualism" between nature and culture there are three other "dualisms"; so actually there are four "dualisms", thus one "quadrialism" - four regions, and each region has two subregions; so I've got eight subregions (little “worlds”), and this eight “worlds” are: (1) physical, (2) chemical, (3) biological, (4) economical, (5) semiotical (incl. psycholgical/sociological), (6) linguistical, (7) philosophical, (8) mathematical. We can combine them: I (1 and 2), II (3 and 4), III (5 and 6), IV (7 and 8 ); or: A (1,2,3,4 or 1,2,3,8) and B (5,6,7,8 or 4,5,6,7). But the principal point is te analogy by itself, just in principle. It is very much stuff! So it is very much text too!

Image

Arminius wrote:Physics: 1a and Ib.
Chemistry: 1b and IIa.
Biology: 2a and IIb.
Economics: 2b and IIIa.
Semiotics: 3a and IIIb.
Linguistics: 3b and IVa.
Philosophy: 4a and IVb.
Mathematics: 4b and Ia.

1) Anorganic.
2) Organic.
3) Mental.
4) Spriritual.
I) Order (means mainly ordinary mode of being).
II) Matter (means mainly material mode of being).
III) Function (means mainly functional mode of being).
IV) Consciousness (means mainly conscious or phenomenal mode of being).
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Re: End of the World

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:52 pm

On genetic evolution. Barring interference, DNA is predestined to form a certain type of organism. Stem cells are destined to form organs and organisms. The question of how does DNA "know" what to do is answered in that it does what it is It is a self replicating chemical compound that becomes organic growth and development. It constructs from itself. The fuel an organism needs for growth and development are the chemicals found in its own body. I don't know how this fits Leibnizian philosophy. For me there is only one realm, which is chemical, and all other states of organic development are extensions of chemical activity. Organic and inorganic are two interdependent sides of a single phenomenon.
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Re: End of the World

Postby Arminius » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:47 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
Arminius wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Mach,
The universe has allowed the creation of beings that can opine on the nature of the universe--a mirror glimpse maybe. But that creation is a big deal.
As of yet, we have not fully explored the possibility that genetic determinism, which produces all organisms, can explain for us the characteristics of our minds. There may be hope for us yet.

1) Do you consider two or more different realms (for example the physical as the first realm, the chemical as the second realm, the biological as the third realm ... and so on)?
1a) If yes: Are this realms like the Leibnizian monads?
1b) If not: Does "genetic determinism" really produce "all organisms", as you said, or is the genetic determinism itself also (just like all organisms are) a product of the physico-chemical nature?

To me, genetics is something between the chemical realm and the biological realm.

Arminius wrote:The theory is based on analogies. For example: Sun and technique (technology), planets and cultures, moons and economies, other bodies and art. The pre-condition I made is that the problem of the "dualism" between nature and culture can be overcome by analogies. In addition to the great "dualism" between nature and culture there are three other "dualisms"; so actually there are four "dualisms", thus one "quadrialism" - four regions, and each region has two subregions; so I've got eight subregions (little “worlds”), and this eight “worlds” are: (1) physical, (2) chemical, (3) biological, (4) economical, (5) semiotical (incl. psycholgical/sociological), (6) linguistical, (7) philosophical, (8) mathematical. We can combine them: I (1 and 2), II (3 and 4), III (5 and 6), IV (7 and 8 ); or: A (1,2,3,4 or 1,2,3,8) and B (5,6,7,8 or 4,5,6,7). But the principal point is the analogy by itself, just in principle. It is very much stuff! So it is very much text too!

Image

Arminius wrote:
Physics: 1a and Ib.
Chemistry: 1b and IIa.
Biology: 2a and IIb.
Economics: 2b and IIIa.
Semiotics: 3a and IIIb.
Linguistics: 3b and IVa.
Philosophy: 4a and IVb.
Mathematics: 4b and Ia.

1) Anorganic.
2) Organic.
3) Mental.
4) Spriritual.
I) Order (means mainly ordinary mode of being).
II) Matter (means mainly material mode of being).
III) Function (means mainly functional mode of being).
IV) Consciousness (means mainly conscious or phenomenal mode of being).

On genetic evolution. Barring interference, DNA is predestined to form a certain type of organism. Stem cells are destined to form organs and organisms. The question of how does DNA "know" what to do is answered in that it does what it is It is a self replicating chemical compound that becomes organic growth and development. It constructs from itself. The fuel an organism needs for growth and development are the chemicals found in its own body. I don't know how this fits Leibnizian philosophy. For me there is only one realm, which is chemical, and all other states of organic development are extensions of chemical activity. Organic and inorganic are two interdependent sides of a single phenomenon.

So, if I have translated your text rightly, then you have answered my question 1) with "no", so that 1b) remains: Does "genetic determinism" really produce "all organisms", as you said, or is the genetic determinism itself also (just like all organisms are) a product of the physico-chemical nature? Your statement that "organic and inorganic are two interdependent sides of a single phenomenon" does not sufficiently answer that question, because interdepedence is not causation, and I was asking for the causation (a producer [cause] produces a product [effect]).
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Re: End of the World

Postby Meno_ » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:41 pm

This is an intriguing derivation. There seems an inverse cause and effect between the development from inorganic to organic stayes.

Let me illustrate the complexity of this.

The tree is an organic substance . the tree dies and devolves into the ground becoming crystal.

Now, the inductive causitive of any derivational process involves the mind, which strictly speaking is some kind of absolute end point of development of structural change from elemental microorganism where the incentive change from molecular to a genetic material can only be inferred by the same mind, differentially and through inductive not deductive logic.

Does not nature anticipate the program by this reverse process ? The change into a crystal has this intrinsic character, whereas sub atomic particles can not be shown to have intelligence except by quantum analysis of random probable behavior which occurs in the two slit experiments on photons.

The irony of nature's wisdom may become a hypothetical example.

How does monadology fit into this process? The monads represent closure within various systems built on the assumption which Saint James introduced by his forum on numerical analysis, vis. does .999999999999=1.00. Liebnitz maintains the identity, as if, such super imposition is a necessary functional anti-derivative, which then he had to maintain on faith. Saint James seems to imply, if I understand him correctly the idea that such faith in absolite closure is not necessary but contingent. I think I agree with his analysis.

The idea of absolute closure may not be necessary to retain faith, and there is no exclusive binary identifiable source to argue other than differentially, not integrally.

The outcome of this argument may correspond to certain mystics' opinion, that crystals possess consciousness as well.
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Re: End of the World

Postby Meno_ » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:00 am

For prophesy believers.

The prophet Isaiah predicted the end of the world as commencing with the building of the third temple at Jerusalem. With all the other predictions having come through of the creation of the new European union, the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the impending course of predicted events and their outcome is no longer merely a matter of contension.
The facts are beginning to show much more.
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Re: End of the World

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:32 am

I wonder how much of the "body of thought" attributed to Leibniz stems from his study of the book "I-Ching".

Presumably the influence was negative given the book's atheistic source. :-)

It's simply unthinkable that a 'body of thought' emerging from the minds of savages could be in any way superior to the intellect of the "Children of the Light" ... Children of God" ... simply unthinkable. :D
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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